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My new missing Anschutz

24K views 169 replies 67 participants last post by  tbates66 
#1 ·
Bought an unusual scoped silhouette Anschutz 64 on GB. That "arrived" today by UPS. Tracking showed it was delivered. My usual FFL contacted me and said the package was an empty gun case.



SN 1277624 in case someone finds it in a dumpster.

How do you handle this crap with a Gun Broker seller???
 
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#95 ·
Frank, you may well be right about continuing to talk through the alternatives. It could be pointed out that either actually sending the rifle (with the hope that he doesn't do anything to it before hand) or refunding the money sounds like a far easier course for him than addition of dealing with various law enforcement agencies to his divorce miseries. In fact, unless Bruce is so enamored of the rifle (and discounting the possibility of the guy somehow sabotaging it for spite), a full refund might be the better choice. Hmmm... and that way, the OP could auction it off once again. :rolleyes: That is, if he hasn't yet been blackballed from the auction sites.

Doug
 
#96 ·
This whole debacle makes less and less sense as more info surfaces. Why go to the trouble of shipping an empty box, then apologizing and promising to make it right, then changing his tune and blaming the FFL dealer? If fraud was the intent from the start, why not just blow you off completely? Buying time does nothing, unless he was hoping to eventually sort it out. So, my mind keeps going back to the divorce. He could have intended to ship it, but maybe was shut down and could not...the frozen asset scenario. He got the money, which is probably gone or frozen, so what can he do except change the story and hope you give up? I can’t offer a course of action that hasn’t already been mentioned, but the guy may have no options at this point.
 
#105 ·
This whole debacle makes less and less sense as more info surfaces. Why go to the trouble of shipping an empty box, then apologizing and promising to make it right, then changing his tune and blaming the FFL dealer? If fraud was the intent from the start, why not just blow you off completely? Buying time does nothing, unless he was hoping to eventually sort it out. So, my mind keeps going back to the divorce. He could have intended to ship it, but maybe was shut down and could not...the frozen asset scenario. He got the money, which is probably gone or frozen, so what can he do except change the story and hope you give up? I can't offer a course of action that hasn't already been mentioned, but the guy may have no options at this point.
Frozen asset only applies to what's yours. Right?
I mean either the rifle is his and is frozen, in which case the money must be reimbursed (not his); or if the money is frozen, it means the transaction has been completed and therefore the rifle is not his and can't be frozen (therefore must be shipped).

I'm not a lawyer, but that would be common sense.
 
#98 ·
Cam, you're probably right about that. And if the rifle is a "frozen" asset as TBR says, the options are limited to say the least. But the heat from law enforcement may break something loose. If it were me, I wouldn't let up. This guy is on very thin ice legally.

Doug
 
#100 ·
I've always found it interesting, as well as alarming, to witness what it takes for seemingly decent people to turn into something else. All can be fine when everything is going their way, but what happens when their luck turns.
Two situations come to mind. One was a guy that bought into a nightclub, where I did tradesman work .His partners did him in, but he was man enough to honor his commitment to me and still pay me, though he got burnt and pushed out.
The other was a guy that I had done business with for a few years. All was going perfectly fine, his business was a winner. He started a new business where I loaned him some money, and that business flopped, and all I heard was his sob story. Things did eventually turn around for him, but before I got my money back, way overdue, he bought himself a new car and big gold ring, and I was supposed to be understanding of his pain, to be patient, etc.
That's not how I operate. My obligations would come first.
 
#101 ·
Reading this thread just reminds me this is the nightmare scenario we all fear when we do business on line. I've been fairly lucky so far and only lost a few bucks on online scam artists and learned my lesson as cheaply as possible, but a story like this one brings it home when we are dealing with any amounts that may be painful.

I hope it all works out in the end and everybody gets what is due to them.... I agree with the sentiment to not get too angry- it won't move the process forward any faster and may actually sabotage any chance of a settlement in my experience... easier said than done, right?

Bob
 
#104 ·
And because everybody is just guessing here - What if the wife is trying to help sell assets and didn't know the case felt to light and sent the first email with the apology? I know of a business deal with an email thread that looked completely nuts - unless you knew that there was guy cutting in and responding to the wife's business deal. He used her email in that case and sent wacko response to questions addressed to her.
 
#107 ·
As soon as the law hears there's a divorce involved they will tell you it's a civil matter. It isn't but they're going to try to distance themselves from it. If you could get access to public notices finding more about the divorce filings and track down the other party, They'd like to hear about marital assets being sold.
 
#116 ·
Actually, calling Grice's and sending them a pic of the rifle to see if it is one they have in stock at the moment might go a long way to helping your case IMO. Especially if you have the serial number or some other way to determine it is the same rifle, law enforcement would be very interested in this information...
 
#117 · (Edited)
Having dealt with scammers online (Facebook marketplace - Paintball items). The seller committed mail fraud. Make sure to file a police report with his local police department. Because it was a firearm, his local LEO might lean on him harder. If memory serves me, because it involved going over state lines, it is a federal crime too.
 
#121 ·
All's well, that ends well, to quote Shakespear

Thursday my FFL called and he received a package that he was not expecting....no advance notice from UPS as would be usual. He called me and said that a blue Anschutz arrived.

Friday I stopped by my PO, just before heading out to my FFL, and found a USPMO from him for the full amount. I would guess he just was not keeping track of personal business and could not find what he needed.

I mad no threats of any sort and was quietly loading my shotgun of information to send off to the authorities.

On the 1st of April he called me and said he would send the rifle again. I waited a couple days and he said he sent it but had no tracking number. I asked hif to file for a lost package and make an insurance claim. Since he had no tracking information, I would suppose he could not make a claim.

Now, guys.....what should I do with the Money Order:rolleyes::confused::confused::D:D
 
#125 ·
Not sure but I believe the MO would be made out in your name. You would need to deposit it and write him a check or a MO for the amount and send it back. If he gets the MO back, he possibly can't cash it. I went through this once and it was a major PIA. Never was able to cash the MO I got for someone and wasted the cash... but a different kind of transaction....

Bob
 
#130 ·
Not sure but I believe the MO would be made out in your name. You would need to deposit it and write him a check or a MO for the amount and send it back. If he gets the MO back, he possibly can't cash it. I went through this once and it was a major PIA. Never was able to cash the MO I got for someone and wasted the cash... but a different kind of transaction....

Bob
If you are keeping the rifle.

I would contact him.

Thank him for the rifle and the refund.

Ask him how he would like you to handle the refund.

Good to see it worked out for you.:bthumb:

E.

Plus we also need pix of this elusive rifle.:)
These, right is right, annoying as this has been I'd cash the MO (see the first post above) and send him a check or MO right back. Heck of a lot to go through though.
 
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