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  #1  
Old 09-19-2010, 08:07 AM
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nemohunter
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Post Rifle fit and fitting.



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Guys and gals at EVERY Appleseed we have fit issues. Stocks too short stocks too long combs too low. These issues make it VERY hard for you to learn what we have to teach.

How to recognize you have a fit problem. THE BIGGEST offender is length of pull or LOP. i see full grown men with a carbine stock and kids with DSP stocks and every kinda weirdness in between. TRY your hardest to get a stock thats the right LOP. if its too short we can build it up but if it's too long there is nothing we can do about that and your gonna struggle and bad. Kids and ladies are the worst sufferers from this. they often get the "extra" rifle. it often does not fit. try to swap rifles around until everybody thats going has a rifle that "fits" if it's too short thats OK we can work with too short.

The other fit issue we see is the comb of the stock is too low. There are many ways to combat this issue. either build up the comb with some sort of material or get a lace on or slip on cheek piece. If your rifle came with factory open sights the comb of the stock is probably gonna be set for those sights. If you have added after market sights such as Tech sights or an optic then your comb is gonna be too low to way too low. We usually build this up one of two ways. We use a combo of vet wrap/coban and foam pipe insulation OR my personal favorite which is Duct tape and cardboard. Some folks are none to happay about that tape. i always tell them it comes off and the residue removes easily with a bit of oil.

The last fit issue ties into the previous one. Optics. if you have a scope on your rifle try to get it as low as you can and as far forward as you can. this is of course provided you have done whats been posted previously. By the time we get your neck stretched out and cheek weld good you will know why.


Which brings me to my final thought. IF there is a scope on your rifle and all you have are factory sights LEAVE THE SCOPE ON THE RIFLE. Factory sights SUCK simple as that. Never seen a Rifleman score shot with factory sights of any kind yet. i'm not saying it cant be done i'm just saying you will be better off with an optic VS that.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:06 AM
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Nemo,

Your post sits very much at the intersection of some things I'm trying to figure out for a potential LTR build. My goal is to build a "semi-high-end" 10/22 - by that I mean one that is simple and traditional looking (no unnecessary "jewelry") but maximizes function and accuracy with open sights (most likely Tech or NoDak).

My big sticking point is with stocks in that I don't know which ones work best w/open sights (until reading your post I hadn't considered that a stock that works w/factory sights might not work with Tech sights). Is there a good way to assess this in general when designing a rig or do you have to try it and find out?

LOP is another thing I've seen on some stock spec sheets but the numbers are useless to me w/out a reference.

Any guidance you can provide would be most appreciated!
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:15 AM
pop
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I will agree with the combs, for me they are way to high for open sights. The only ones I have found besides levder action are the Savage 64F and the Mossberg Plinkster. Both are plastic stocks. If Marlin would make the 795 with a lower comb it would be great. Those are the only ones I have found. The only one in bolt as been the CZ trainer.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:31 AM
CraigC
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I'm having some fitment issues myself. Mine is an iron sight rifle but I still don't have enough comb heigh for proper cheek weld. I need another half inch or less. I also need a longer and deeper pistol grip to keep from dragging wood. I have to rotate my hand way too far and place it way too low for it to be comfortable. The problem is that there are no traditional style stocks on the market that address these issues. Though I did order a "tacticool" from Boyd's just because they were on sale. We'll see.

The offending "Explorer" stock:
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:10 AM
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For combs that are too low -

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=129354

For combs that are too high -

http://www.stanleytools.com/showPic....%20Cut%20Blade

For synthetic combs that are too high -

a new stock is in order.
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
I'm having some fitment issues myself. Mine is an iron sight rifle but I still don't have enough comb heigh for proper cheek weld. I need another half inch or less. I also need a longer and deeper pistol grip to keep from dragging wood. I have to rotate my hand way too far and place it way too low for it to be comfortable. The problem is that there are no traditional style stocks on the market that address these issues. Though I did order a "tacticool" from Boyd's just because they were on sale. We'll see.

The offending "Explorer" stock:
Interesting! Your rifle was kind of a model for what I was going for. I was wondering if the Tacticool would work or the Bell and Carlson Target/Varmint.

I'd much prefer to find a proper stock than have to add padding - makeshift or otherwise.
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Old 09-20-2010, 02:21 AM
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How about the Trailblazer stock? Or does that have too much height for use with Tech Sights?

Last edited by Doubleought; 09-20-2010 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:26 AM
blacksmithtech
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A fair medium for me was to raise the comb to just below the horizontal plane of the top of the forearm, this also seems very close to the center of the boreline.

I also made it parallel to the bore also - made it usable when standing and when in prone. I have my scope mounted as low as possible.

I used the factory beech stock - also added 1" to the LOP


[IMG][/IMG]
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  #9  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Pilot View Post
Interesting! Your rifle was kind of a model for what I was going for. I was wondering if the Tacticool would work or the Bell and Carlson Target/Varmint.

I'd much prefer to find a proper stock than have to add padding - makeshift or otherwise.
My problem is at 6'4" and since I wear 33 inch sleeves, I have basically never found a rifle with a stock long enough for me. I end up with my hand twisted into some weird cramped shape attempting to get a finger on the trigger at the pad and not on the second or third joint, and my elbow is bent deep, and my head is cranked over at a weird angle.

Scopes -help- me because for iron sights, I need to build up the BOTTOM of the stock as well as the top. (Ok, ok, I need to drop the butt in order to bring the sights UP to where my eye is. )

So, since I've finished the FIRST round of messing with my Savage 64, adding an extension to the mag release, the next project is going to be messing with the stock.

Butt plate extensions are easy enough, comb is trickier... but if I can convince myself I can cut a decent looking curve into the stock, then

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=1..._Comb_Hardware
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2010, 06:13 PM
9mm4545
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There is one option which worked for my wife. http://www.opticsplanet.net/fajen-legacy-series-ruger-10-22-silhouette-shotgun-barrel-stock-fully-adjustable-5486.html
Least LOP is 13.25" so very short people won't like it but it is adjustable every which way to Sunday. Won't work for left hand people either. Mine required a bit of minor fitting to line up the action screw but YMMV. For the stature challenged, Ruger makes a Compact model with 12.5" LOP IIRC. Of course a chop saw can make it even shorter as this stock uses a straight butt plate and would be a whole lot easier than fitting the standard curved butt plate after shortening the stock. I can see the advantage of the adjustable M4 style butt stocks, especially for the youths.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:27 AM
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I've seen a number of people talking about fitting a rifle, but I can't find anywhere what the fit should be. Lots of information about how to correct the issues, but nothing about identifying them.

How is the correct length of pull determined?
How is the correct height of the comb determined?
How do I know if a firearm is too heavy? (especially for someone else like my wife or son?)
Is a heavier rifle better accuracy wise?
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2010, 07:20 PM
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a rough gauge for LOP is from the crook of your elbow to the first joint on your trigger finger. this will get you close.

the correct height of comb will only be found out from shooting. best thing to do is turkey neck and settle into your cheek weld with your eyes closed, then relax, then open your eyes. if your not looking right down the sights or though the center of the scope. you need to make adjustments till you are. with irons you have to mod the stock either build up (most common) or shave the comb down (almost never). you can do the same thing with a scope too but the best thing to do with the scope get it low and forward. (99% of the time they are too far to the rear) and then mod the rifle.

only personal preference is gonna tell you if a firearm is too heavy. to me it should not matter one bit. if your using the sling in the proper manner it(the sling) along with the wood of the stock and your skeletal structure should be supporting the rifle. no muscle should be used for this even in standing.

a heavier rifle can be easier to shoot for some folks BUT if you have and are using NPOA it should not matter one bit.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemohunter View Post
best thing to do is turkey neck
Nemohunter,

would you please explain to non-mother tongue readers your 'turkey neck' expression ?

Thanks
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:39 PM
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get your rifle up in your pocket. now stretch your neck out forward as far as you can and then set your face down on the comb of the stock AKA cheek weld.
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2010, 06:52 PM
JJAGUNS
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Ltr

[IMG][/IMG]

This has a 14.5 LOP and a fairly quick turn on the pistol grip. I did this stock from a machine inletted blank I picked up. It fits me perfect, but makes a very poor loaner rifle unless the person has arms like a gorilla. I will get a pick of the rifle all in one photo.
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