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  #31  
Old 03-19-2021, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
Here is my take on BR shooting and $$/accuracy. My father shot bench rest and spent thousands of $$ on a custom Anschutz, special trigger, barrel harmonizer, sled to hold the gun with micrometer adjustments, Leupold 36x scope and bought special lots of ammo. He shot in the 240ís regularly.

I shot a 1960ís manufacture Mossberg 342 KA with a 3-9x scope, 5 round magazine, sandbag front rest and right shoulder rear rest. I shot off the shelf CCI Green Tag ammo and shot in the 220ís.

Guess who had more fun and a fatter wallet??

I knew I couldnít win a competition but didnít really care. I was testing MY ability as a marksman not how much money I could spend for a, in my opinion, small incremental result.
B17flyboy,

I gotta ask you a question. Since you knew you were not shooting a particularly accurate rifle how did you determine which shots you missed verse which shots the rifle missed?

Point being until you shoot a really accurate rifle you will never know what your abilities are.

Hopefully you are having fun because in the end that is all that matters.

TKH
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2021, 09:59 AM
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The goal is to be learn to be accurate with what you have not what you can buy. Take a soldier from any era. He’s issued a firearm and ammo. He doesn’t get to hand load ammo, test fire from different lots, set up windage flags between he and his target. You learn to use what you have. That IMO is what makes a true marksman.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2021, 10:53 AM
tonykharper

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Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
The goal is to be learn to be accurate with what you have not what you can buy. Take a soldier from any era. Heís issued a firearm and ammo. He doesnít get to hand load ammo, test fire from different lots, set up windage flags between he and his target. You learn to use what you have. That IMO is what makes a true marksman.
B17flyboy,

Not to belabor the issue but one can't be accurate with a rifle that will not shoot. It is not a learning curve. If you aim right and hit wrong you still miss.

In the case of the soldiers using what they are issued. Many are dead because of it.

We do research and development to field the best equipment our budget will allow. Marksman or not the best soldiers are the ones that fight and come back alive.

What I think you are saying is learn to be happy with what you can afford.
Nothing wrong with that. In the end that is what we all do.

TKH
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2021, 11:28 AM
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What I’m saying is BR shooting is not a measure of an individual’s marksmanship ability it’s a measure of how deep their pockets are. You can’t consider yourself to be an excellent marksman if you don’t even hold the firearm in your hands.

I’m not trying to knock whatever brings people joy. I just don’t see the point in spending so much money on equipment to sit on a bench once a month so you can squeeze a 3 ounce trigger and score 245-250/15-20x every time. I personally would find no pleasure in that because it isn’t a valid test of my ability to adapt and overcome.

Dead horse sufficiently beaten.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2021, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
What Iím saying is BR shooting is not a measure of an individualís marksmanship ability itís a measure of how deep their pockets are. You canít consider yourself to be an excellent marksman if you donít even hold the firearm in your hands.

Iím not trying to knock whatever brings people joy. I just donít see the point in spending so much money on equipment to sit on a bench once a month so you can squeeze a 3 ounce trigger and score 245-250/15-20x every time. I personally would find no pleasure in that because it isnít a valid test of my ability to adapt and overcome.

Dead horse sufficiently beaten.
Man if all it took was money$$$ there would be a lot more guys shooting 250-20X or even 750's I don't think there has been a 750-75X and maybe less than a 1/2 dozen 250-25X

how many have you shot with you fine shooting skills?

Lee
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  #36  
Old 03-20-2021, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
What I’m saying is BR shooting is not a measure of an individual’s marksmanship ability it’s a measure of how deep their pockets are. You can’t consider yourself to be an excellent marksman if you don’t even hold the firearm in your hands.

I’m not trying to knock whatever brings people joy. I just don’t see the point in spending so much money on equipment to sit on a bench once a month so you can squeeze a 3 ounce trigger and score 245-250/15-20x every time. I personally would find no pleasure in that because it isn’t a valid test of my ability to adapt and overcome.

Dead horse sufficiently beaten.
Then why are you here? Br shooting is a measure of one's ability to read wind call shots when you're supposed to shoot and hold off when you're not . It's the ability to be patient and know how the gun likes to be shot. Money only gets you so far in the br world ,after that it's up to the shooter to pull the trigger at the right time. Money ain't got crap to do with ability. Could have the best gun in the world if you don't know how to point it correctly its all for not.
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  #37  
Old 03-27-2021, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
The goal is to be learn to be accurate with what you have not what you can buy. Take a soldier from any era. Heís issued a firearm and ammo. He doesnít get to hand load ammo, test fire from different lots, set up windage flags between he and his target. You learn to use what you have. That IMO is what makes a true marksman.
B17 flyboy, /tony Harper is the best rimfire bench rest shooter I have ever seen in my life. precision shooting is another ball game, back in 2008 or so I shot 68 A-25 targets in a row of 200-20x . there are only a fraction of 1% that achieved any top level. if you or anyone wants to find out if your a marksman or a precession shooter try iron sights. many try it.few can master as it takes many, many years. most give up. marty
ps; fly boy so you understand where I'm coming from 66 years ago at the altoona rifle and pistol club I was a member of the shooting team. I was one of the kids that was a gopher when the units of the military from a far away came as it was the only 500 yard range, and more than a few times heard this" hey kid don't do this" hey kid get this" been there did that. marty

Last edited by earnest; 03-27-2021 at 12:16 AM.
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  #38  
Old 03-27-2021, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
The goal is to be learn to be accurate with what you have not what you can buy. Take a soldier from any era. Heís issued a firearm and ammo. He doesnít get to hand load ammo, test fire from different lots, set up windage flags between he and his target. You learn to use what you have. That IMO is what makes a true marksman.
B17 flyboy, in 2006 I met Agnus Hodbell near tampa, aranged for spo1 to be built, back home they said from the custom shopp it could take 8 weeks or longer, had the pistol in a few days. sent back in 2014 to be re barreled and such. before coming here was gifted a stock duplicated by Carl bernosky, finished by Alex Sitman and autographed by him, the only 1 that exists for a reason. lived in a different world from those that were marksman. when the marksman were warm in bed I was practicing. here when I came to florida and was shooting pistols and iron sights they lined up behind to watch and like so many said. "they never seen anything llike that in their life" you know what ? they were right because when they were all cozy in their beds I was at the range when no one else was there. I have never given in or given up. if folks don't know me by now they never will. marty
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  #39  
Old 03-27-2021, 01:06 AM
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b17 fly boy most shooters don't live in my world, if they did pics would be posted. marty

instead they live in this world
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  #40  
Old 03-27-2021, 08:38 AM
tonykharper

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Originally Posted by earnest View Post
B17 flyboy, /tony Harper is the best rimfire bench rest shooter I have ever seen in my life. precision shooting is another ball game, back in 2008 or so I shot 68 A-25 targets in a row of 200-20x . there are only a fraction of 1% that achieved any top level. if you or anyone wants to find out if your a marksman or a precession shooter try iron sights. many try it.few can master as it takes many, many years. most give up. marty
ps; fly boy so you understand where I'm coming from 66 years ago at the altoona rifle and pistol club I was a member of the shooting team. I was one of the kids that was a gopher when the units of the military from a far away came as it was the only 500 yard range, and more than a few times heard this" hey kid don't do this" hey kid get this" been there did that. marty
earnest ,

That was a very nice thing to say. I feel honored especially coming from you.

Just in case you are wondering, my butt is still burning from the days at Anderson Creek when you cleaned my clock. Those were some good times. Enjoy the sunshine.

TKH
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  #41  
Old 03-27-2021, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
What Iím saying is BR shooting is not a measure of an individualís marksmanship ability itís a measure of how deep their pockets are. You canít consider yourself to be an excellent marksman if you donít even hold the firearm in your hands.

Iím not trying to knock whatever brings people joy. I just donít see the point in spending so much money on equipment to sit on a bench once a month so you can squeeze a 3 ounce trigger and score 245-250/15-20x every time. I personally would find no pleasure in that because it isnít a valid test of my ability to adapt and overcome.

Dead horse sufficiently beaten.
"not trying to knock whatever brings people joy" Yes you are. You just don't like this type shooting so why be here bashing the those of us who do? and yes, your bashing. None of us need to justify our sport to you or anyone else. Enjoy what you like and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy what we like.

Here's something else to consider in your criticism. Many of us are older. I used to shoot a lot of Service Rifle, M1, and Vintage Rifle competitions-for many years. And even small bore prone and CMP sporter matches. Even shot many Bullseye matches. that was then. RFBR is now about what many of us can do now to continue to enjoy shooting. How many of those matches have you shot? Like you said, "adapt and overcome", that's exactly what many of us have done.
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  #42  
Old 03-27-2021, 11:05 AM
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I've seen many people spend big $$$ to buy high scores. Their scores improve for a short time, then sink back to where they were before. It's called the "new gun syndrome" With the new gun, their concentration is more focused for a while, but then their bad habits reappear. With some people, the skills just aren't there.
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  #43  
Old 03-27-2021, 11:12 AM
vlnbyr

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Originally Posted by B17flyboy View Post
What Iím saying is BR shooting is not a measure of an individualís marksmanship ability itís a measure of how deep their pockets are. You canít consider yourself to be an excellent marksman if you donít even hold the firearm in your hands.
Some random thoughts for flyboy...RFBR will eat your lunch if you ever give it a chance. ARA is the sport where people who think they can shoot find out they can't. RFBR has the most spread of ANY SPORT between how easy it looks and how hard it really is. SHOW UP AND SHOOT.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-2021, 04:14 PM
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Some random thoughts for flyboy...RFBR will eat your lunch if you ever give it a chance. ARA is the sport where people who think they can shoot find out they can't. RFBR has the most spread of ANY SPORT between how easy it looks and how hard it really is. SHOW UP AND SHOOT.
The above says it all. I shot skeet for many years and classified AA across the board. After 4 years of shooting club ARA and IR- 50 50 matches I have yet to come close to perfection. If anyone thinks it's easy show up with your rifle, ammo and your wallet. I'm sure you will come across someone who will lighten it for you.
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  #45  
Old 03-28-2021, 06:17 PM
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Alrighty my man. I’m in. So where is the first tee box and what is the course record? LOL. Gotta love it.
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