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Real world .22 self defense.

43K views 201 replies 83 participants last post by  gmd1950 
#1 · (Edited)
I love guns, and have been a shooter since my early days. But I am somewhat distressed at what have seen in the changes in the gun community driven by corporate greed in the past 20 years or so.

I’ll start by being very brutally honest; I’m a mixed race, former gang member from a very bad part of Washington D.C.. I have taken part in criminal activities in my teenage years, and most the guys I grew up with ended up in either prison, or the cemetery. The leading cause of death of young men in D.C., is gunfire. By the time I was 18 I had lost three friends to gunshots. Two were killed in gang vs gang activities, one was killed ironically being mugged when he got a job in the government and moved out to the Maryland suburbs and was shot in a metro parking garage in Silver Spring, Maryland. The only way I avoided that fate was I had an uncle that ‘convinced’ me to enlist in the service and get out of town. I owe him my life, as well as Sgt. First Class Mouton, a mentor who for some reason who saw something in me worth saving. I went strait and went on to live a pretty normal life.

But I see the gun shop guru’s brainlessly parroting the gun magazine guru’s, many of who have never had to use a gun in real world self defense. They are selling guns that the new naive buyers don’t really need, and will rarely if ever carry. Too big, too heavy, too much recoil to shoot fast and acurrite for the little amount of practice they will do once the new enthusiasm wears off. Yeah, I know, a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. But…why not both?

Growing up in what most people would call a bad part of town, what looking back I’d call a ghetto, there was lots of guns around. No matter that D.C. was as much an anti gun place as NYC, or anywhere in New Jersey, people were people, and they wanted to protect themselves. Small guns that didn’t cost much were the rule. Since these were not guns from a real gun shop, they came from the ‘gun guy.’ The guy you met by the trash dumpsters out back of the bowling ally or bar you frequented. You didn’t know the gun guy, and he didn’t want to know you. No names. But it was agreed on, if you got caught with the gun, you said you bought it from a guy at a bar that was hard up for money. If you had to use it, you tossed it in the river after and said nothing. Not like that idiot in the NYC subway shooting that actually turned himself in.

The most popular guns were the little German made RG .22 revolvers. They went bang everytinme, and at the close range most shootings took place, accuracy didn’t matter. Shooting at little more than arms length, minute of angle don’t matter. Another popular gun was the little Italian made .25acp’s. Galesi and the FIE Titan were around. Pocket size and effective. Which brings me to the point.

I was involved in one shooting with a little palm size .22 derringer. My friend Eli was shot in the stomach with a .22 RG. Our friend Al was killed by a little teenage crack head with a Raven .25. I first hand witnessed a shooting outside a bar where the deceased tried to use a strait razor on someone, and got shot three times with a RG.22. All in all, I never saw, or heard of, anyone who got shot with a .22 or .25 center of mass, dancing around afterward. In fact, I never heard of anyone not going down for the count, regardless of what some self inflated magazine guru said. Shootings were about 5 to 8 feet in range, and it was all over in a few seconds and a few shots, one way or the other. And it didn’t seem to matter what kind of gun you used, if you shot first and hit, then you got to live. When my friend Eli was gut shot one time, he crumbled and was out fit. He survived, but later in the hospital I asked him if he could have run or done anything. He said; “No man, it was like a white hot soldering iron twisting around in my guts.” Eli was a good 6 foot and 200 pound guy. He was taken right down the itty bitty .22.

I like to practice once a week. I go to local shooting ranges and I see a lot of atrocious shooting. Mostly by people shooting one of the “in” guns from Sig, Glock, or whatever, and its all they can do to keep most of their rounds inside the black on a full size silhouette at 10 yards, slowly aiming and taking their time. And they still manage to get rounds off in the white. There seems to be a direct correlation to how bad they shoot as to caliber. The 9mm people are barely passable. The .40 crowd is outright bad, while the more compact .380 shooters like Ruger LCP, Glock 42, the little Sig number whatever, are terrible. The little .380 crowd is a lot of women who can’t deal with the snappy .380’s. On multiple occasions now, I’ve been approached by a female shooter wanting to know what kind of gun I’m shooing that all the holes are in the middle. When I show them a .22, I’ve let them try it, and almost immediately they want one. After just a few cylinders of ammo, their shooting improves noticeably. Even a few men shooters did way way better with a .22. They then went to gun counter of the ranges gun shop and tried to trade in their gun for one like my .22. They of course got the speech of how a .22 will just make someone mad and it has zero stopping power. This from a gun guru that has never shot anyone in their sheltered little world.

Over the past few years, I and my wife have taught/retrained/influenced 11 women we met on shooting ranges to trade in their guns on a good quality .22 that they actually enjoy shooting. Ruger LCR’s, Smith and Wesson 317’s, NAA Black Widow’s, seem to be popular with them. A few even sprang for a Combo of a Ruger LCR .22 and a smaller NAA .22 for pocket carry when the Ruger may be a bit big for a date or business carry.

Unless you’re the Lone Ranger bringing justice to the frontier, or some other Hollywood action hero, it seems like most people going about their life going to the office, stopping on the way home to pick a pizza for the kids, picking up the dry cleaning, or taking the wife and kids for a walk in the park, would be better served by a small pocket size .22 that they can actually shoot well and enjoy practicing. Not to mention can just be dropped in a pocket holster in the pants with no trouble, so it will actually be there in case of a problem. Leave the bigger guns to the tactical Tommy’s that think they are Steven Sagal taking on a trainload of terrorists . I know that in the past 30 plus years of carrying one or two NAA mini .22’s, they have worked on two occasions of stopping a crime. My wife stopped a car jacking at a gas station with her little S&W 317.

This is just my own opinion from a earlier life in a crappy ghetto and first hand at real violence. I was a criminal and teenage gang member and street thug. I've seen people shot, and I've shot someone once. All I can go on is what I've actually experienced and seen first hand.
 
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#2 ·
defense statistics.

I thought I'd toss this our there to go with my other post. Its interesting to see what they say about the small caliber effectiveness at close range.

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Analysis of Five Years of Armed Encounters (With Data Tables)
MARCH 12 2012BY GSL STAFF
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Incident at a Glance
Gun(s) Used: Unknown Location: Unknown
# of Suspects: Unknown Shots Fired: Unknown
Suspect Killed: Unknown State:
Source: Archive: None

Foreword by GunsSaveLives.net
This article was originally written several years ago by Claude Werner. It is republished here, in its entirety (including data tables) with permission.
While the source material is somewhat dated there is still a lot of information we can learn from this. One thing to also note is that the stories used for this study were all situations in which a citizen successfully defended themselves. This means that the study focuses on and shows what works, not what doesn't work.
Author
Claude Werner
Firearms Safety Training LLC
The Armed Citizen - A Five Year Analysis
Overview
For the period 1997 - 2001, reports from "The Armed Citizen" column of the NRA Journals were collected. There were 482 incidents available for inclusion in the analysis. All involved the use of firearms by private citizens in self defense or defense of others. No law enforcement related incidents were included. The database is self-selecting in that no non-positive outcomes were reported in the column.
Analysis
As might be expected, the majority of incidents (52%) took place in the home. Next most common locale (32%) was in a business. Incidents took place in public places in 9% of reports and 7% occurred in or around vehicles.
The most common initial crimes were armed robbery (32%), home invasion (30%), and burglary (18%).
Overall, shots were fired by the defender in 72% of incidents. The average and median number of shots fired was 2. When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared that the defender's initial response was to fire until empty. It appears that revolver shooters are more likely to empty their guns than autoloader shooters. At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender, at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
Handguns were used in 78% of incidents while long guns were used in 13%; in the balance the type of firearm was not reported. The most common size of handgun was the .35 caliber family (.38, .357, 9mm) at 61%, with most .38s apparently being of the 5 shot variety. Mouseguns (.380s and below) were at 23%, and .40 caliber and up at 15%.
The range of most incidents appears to be short but in excess of touching distance. It appears that most defenders will make the shoot decision shortly before the criminal comes within arm's length. Defenders frequently communicate with their attackers before shooting.
The firearm was carried on the body of the defender in only 20% of incidents. In 80% of cases, the firearm was obtained from a place of storage, frequently in another room.
Reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver, which was eventually successful after 13 shots.
Multiple conspirators were involved in 36% of the incidents. However, there were no apparent cases of getaway drivers or lookouts acting as reinforcements for the criminal actor(s) once shooting starts. At the sound of gunfire, immediate flight was the most common response for drivers and lookouts.
When multiple conspirators were involved, the first tier was a two man action team. If another member was available, he was usually the driver of the getaway car and remained in the car. If a fourth conspirator was involved, he was stationed immediately outside the target location as a lookout for the police or other possible intervening parties. The outside conspirators do not generally appear to be armed. It does appear that the trend over the period has increased from one weapon in the action team to two weapons.
The largest group of violent criminal actors was 7, a group that committed serial home invasions in Rochester NY. An alert and prepared homeowner, who saw them invade an adjacent home, accessed his shotgun, and dispatched them (2 killed and 1 seriously wounded) when they broke in his door.
Incidents rarely occurred in reaction time (i.e., ¼ second increments). Most commonly, criminals acted in a shark-like fashion, slowly circling and alerting their intended victims. The defender(s) then had time to access even weapons that were stored in other rooms and bring them to bear.
The most common responses of criminals upon being shot were to flee immediately or expire. With few exceptions, criminals ceased their advances immediately upon being shot. Even small caliber handguns displayed a significant degree of instant lethality (30 per cent immediate one shot kills) when employed at close range. Many criminal actors vocally expressed their fear of being shot when the defender displayed a weapon. Upon the criminals' flight, the "victims" frequently chased and captured or shot the criminals and held them for the authorities.
Conclusions
1) Even small caliber weapons are adequate to solve the vast majority of incidents requiring armed self-defense.
2) Mindset of the potential victim was far more important than the type of weapon used. All the victims were willing to fight their opponents in order to survive. Although not common, in some cases bridge weapons, such as pens, were used to gain time to access the firearm.
3) Frequently, the defenders were aware that something was amiss before the action started and then placed themselves in position to access their weapons. Awareness of the surroundings appears to be a key element of successful defense.
4) The defenders had some measure of familiarity with their firearms. Although perhaps not trained in the formal sense, they appear to be able to access a firearm and immediately put it into action. At least one defender learned from a previous experience and made the firearm more accessible for subsequent use.
5) Training or practice with a firearm should include a substantial amount of accessing the firearm from off body locations, such as drawers, underneath counters, etc.
6) This analysis does not present a view of the totality of armed self-defense in that non-positive outcomes were not available for inclusion in the database. The analysis may, however, be useful in helping to describe a methodology for successful armed self-defense. This methodology might be described as:
1. be aware,
2. be willing to fight,
3. have a weapon accessible,
4. be familiar enough with the weapon to employ it without fumbling,
5. when ready, communicate, both verbally and non-verbally, to the attacker that resistance will be given, and
6. if the attacker does not withdraw, counterattack without hesitation.

Location of Incident
Location %
Home 52%
Business 32%
Public 9%
In/around Vehicle 7%

Shots Fired
Type of Location No Yes
Business 33% 72%
Home 25% 75%
Public 29% 71%
In/around Vehicle 35% 65%
Total 28% 72%

Number of Shots Fired
Average 2.2
Median 2
Mode 1
Max 20

Gun Type
Handgun 78%
Long Gun 13%
Unknown 8%

Body Carry
Type of Location No Yes
Business 69% 31%
Home 94% 6%
Public 49% 51%
In/around Vehicle 65% 35%
Total 80% 20%

Multiple Assailants
Type of Location No Yes
Business 76% 24%
Home 72% 28%
Public 62% 38%
Retail Business 52% 48%
In/around Vehicle 49% 51%
Total 80% 20%
Disqus Comments]
 
#111 ·
That said, the few places I have read/watched about defensive round selection, the 22 is never dismissed out right.[/QUOTE

I was subjected to a screaming rant on another gun board, (half page, all caps rant), telling me what a idiot I was because I mentioned that I occasionally carry my .380 instead of my 9mm or 45, because sometimes you just need something that will fit inside a pocket and disappear.

Guess it was a good thing that I didn't mention that also sometimes carry a NA arms .22. . .

Was also yelled at another time because of how I carried a spare magazine (right hand pocket) instead of in a tacti-cool super speed rig on my left hand side.

Some people seem to be overly concerned with what and how other people carry. I prefer Ayoob's perspective: (paraphrased) Make your choice and live with the result.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I've carried a gun for over 45 years. I was a police officer, bodyguard, private detective, security consultant. Now retired but I am currently a certified firearms/CPL instructor.

My 5 Universal rules of self defense I tell all my students.

1. The mere presence of a gun stops most contentious behavior (Nobody wants to get shot)
2. Any gun is better than no gun
3. Shot placement is more important than caliber
4. Hits count
5. If you carry a gun you must be ready, willing and able to use it.

Having said that, my son works in a trauma surgery unit of a large urban health care system.

He says that most GSW (gun shot wound) victims who are shot with minor calibers, .380 and below who walk into also walk out of the emergency room. Most 9 mm and above victims are carried in and only about 50% walk out. Most rifle and shotgun victims are either DOA or don't last long. Only about 10% walk out.

Most means most but not all. That could be anywhere from 51% or more. Obviously shot placement mostly determines whether the victim can walk or not. And that only accounts for victims who can walk into the ER not dead on the street victims.

He does note that following the bullet path of a 22 in the human body is often tricky. When the body reacts to being shot is often twists and contorts. The bullet often takes a circuitous route. He has found bullets in the victim's hip, legs. feet and hands that were shot in the head or vice versa.

He also says he has seen a shift away from smaller and larger calibers to .380 GSWs in the past few years as pocket .380s became more popular.
 
#52 ·
I've carried a gun for over 45 years. I was a police officer, bodyguard, private detective, security consultant. Now retired but I am currently a certified firearms/CPL instructor.

My 5 Universal rules of self defense I tell all my students.

1. The mere presence of a gun stops most contentious behavior (Nobody wants to get shot)
2. Any gun is better than no gun
3. Shot placement is more important than caliber
4. Hits count
5. If you carry a gun you must be ready, willing and able to use it.

Having said that, my son works in a trauma surgery unit of a large urban health care system.

He says that most GSW (gun shot wound) victims who are shot with minor calibers, .380 and below who walk into also walk out of the emergency room. Most 9 mm and above victims are carried in and only about 50% walk out. Most rifle and shotgun victims are either DOA or don't last long. Only about 10% walk out.

Most means most but not all. That could be anywhere from 51% or more. Obviously shot placement mostly determines whether the victim can walk or not. And that only accounts for victims who can walk into the ER not dead on the street victims.

He does note that following the bullet path of a 22 in the human body is often tricky. When the body reacts to being shot is often twists and contorts. The bullet often takes a circuitous route. He has found bullets in the victim's hip, legs. feet and hands that were shot in the head or vice versa.

He also says he has seen a shift away from smaller and larger calibers to .380 GSWs in the past few years as pocket .380s became more popular.
There is only one law: When shots ring out, everybody runs.
 
#6 ·
In that vein of thought, 25 acp , a centerfire, is a better choice. More reliable first shot bang. And out of a short barell no less than a 22.

For years the 25 acp was the king of pocket pistols. But then WW2 happened.and people learned bigger bullets meant bigger holes, and then the 70 s, and more bullets meant more holes. Its America, bigger is better,More is better. We cant unravel that web . So they are going to carry guns they dont know how to shoot.

Thats what the NRA should be doing, marksmanship programs for all the new gun owners. Now we're lucky if they get a saftey lesson tha they can remember.

When I take a new person shooting , we start on 22s, and stay on 22s.

But I carry something a little bigger!
 
#9 ·
You couldn't pay me to carry a 25. Uncles best friends was special forces. Man broke into his house and shot him 7 TIMES with a 25. Uncles friend took the gun away and beat him to death. He will be 72 this year.

22lr
22mag
9mm
45

Anything else I'm not interested in.

Iron
 
#12 ·
Jackknife,

First, thank you for your honesty.

Second, congratulations and praise the Lord for sending you mentors and for your escape from a deadly place.

Third, thank you for a thought-provoking post!
Hear here, I'll also add I appreciate your sacrifices for serving. A .22 would be the last thing I would use in a survival situation unless it's the only thing available. The most important thing is always shot placement is key, in a rush rush situation or gang fight it's not going to happen. Using a .22 for a sneak attack from behind with a bullet to the temple at point blank, no problem, but that'd be about it. Good Luck
 
#8 ·
Lots and lots of words. This one one of the most frequent topics that creates lots and lots of words. If you want to carry a .22 for defense, that's your choice. Lots and lots of words that never really corroborate it being a defensive caliber are all over the forum and the internet at large. In general, people don't shoot accurately. But 2-3 hits with a .22 are not as good as 1 hit with anything bigger. If the person is shooting back or running at you with a knife or ax.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169233
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1191271
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395007

Prediction: this thread will once again generate lots and lots of words, as the above did, and nothing will prove the hypothesis yet again.
 
#13 ·
Well, the OP _did_ provide personal examples of rimfire lethality and/or effectiveness. You may call it anecdotal; that's fine and fair.

Your response, however, is rude and dismissive, especially considering that the OP, a fellow RFCer, bothered to add some personal elements to the post.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 
#16 ·
Many a gangbanger been done in by a deuce deuce, many a non-gangbanger, too.

Considering most defensive engagements happen within 10-12 feet, a .22 is gonna be a deterrent, and lethal.

Easy to handle and cheap to shoot makes a .22 shooter confident and effective.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
I carry a Walther P22 because my arthritic hands just can't wrack the slide on a 9mm.
My wife always has a .25 auto in her purse loaded with hollow points not solids.
she also carries a Walther P22.
When I trained her on the P22, I stood on her left rear and as she was shooting, I'd say "click." and she would reach up and work the slide and keep shooting.
The training works because she had a dud not too long ago and cleared it in a couple of seconds.
I have since bought her a 10/22 and continue the "dud" training.
she know to turn the guns on their sides when she clears them, and, she has developed into a much better shot than me.
 
#20 ·
I agree with this. 1000's and 1000's of .22LR with only a handful of problems.

I've used the cheapest .22LR, like Thunderbolts, and have run through an entire box of 500 without a single malfunction. Multiple times. Different guns.

By contrast, I tried the cheapest 9mm, Federal Aluminum, and a 200 round box was met with failures to feed, fire, and stovepipes. Same results in different guns that are normally totally reliable. I now only use brass in those 9mm handguns.

Self defense with a .22LR handgun is going to be a mag dump into the threat. 10+ rounds:gun4:
Not looking to just shoot 1 or 2 shots at them.

My wife has a 9mm but will occasionally carry a M&P22C. She can put many rounds on target out to 7 yrds.
I carry a M&P22 Full size or a Sig Mosquito sometimes when I feel carrying "light" is suitable.
 
#19 ·
The conversation should address what YOU can handle. I used to shoot 44 mag, 357, etc. And have always been 5'8" and about 160 but am now 80 years old. I don't do a lot of handgun shooting because I can't hit squat with them. But went out with a friend recently and shot a Glock 19 and a small Raven sized pocket .22 with Blazers. Got to say, neither was comfortable to shoot and because I also have arthritis in my right wrist couldn't reliably keep either within 1 foot at 7 yds in rapid fire. I decided my Walther.22 will have to serve the purpose. I have a diminutive lady friend who has a SW Ladysmith in .38 with the same basic problem. Might pick up a couple of Glock .22lr in the near future because I don't like safeties.
 
#23 ·
Every time this topic comes up this jumps into my mind....



Everyone gets to use whatever appeals to them...surviving an encounter appeals to me. I want a threat shut down as quickly as possible, don't care if the perp lives or dies...just want to stop them as quickly as possible.
 
#24 ·
If I had no other choice, I'd carry one of my .22LR handguns. But I do have other choices. I don't have a physical condition that prevents using a centerfire handgun. I don't only own a .22. I can quickly and accurately shoot a larger gun. I have available ammo for said gun.

I also don't tend to drive over the speed limit. But I feel safer driving a vehicle that is capable of going more than 70 mph if I need it to. Purposely choosing to arm yourself with the bare minimum doesn't make sense to me. YMMV.
 
#26 ·
If someone wants to carry a .22lr for self defense that is 100% fine with me. Any gun is better than no gun. Personally I will never carry a .22lr for self defense, no matter how many times you try to convince everyone here of it's effectiveness. If you read your own post it says most defensive shootings take place close to arms length away. At that distance you could hit a person with a Derringer loaded with a 50 BMG 10/10 times probably even if you never fired a gun once in your entire life. And while it may not be a popular discussion if you do have to shoot someone in a self defense situation you will end up in a courtroom after more than likely. You are a whole lot less likely to have someone testifying against and trying to sue you if you used a larger caliber round. Not sure why you feel the need to to bring up this exact same subject every few months as it has been beaten to death already.
 
#32 ·
Such a specious argument....
:yeahthat:

You shouldn't use a hammer for self-defense.

Let me hit you with one and see if that changes your mind. What? No volunteers?

:)

I'd be tempted to counter that argument with "okay, but I'm not going to stand here motionless and after you get the first shot I'm taking mine. Ready?"

IMO threads like this can serve only one of two purposes -- rationalize one's decision to use a 22lr for self defense or convince someone else it's okay if they do the same. Which way is this one leaning?

We are each responsible for our own safety and the choices we make in that regard - while there may be no wrong solution some are demonstrably better than others.
 
#29 ·
Having never shot anyone or been shot I have no practical experience in this matter. As to 25 ACP I will relate what a state cop that I used to chew the fat with at the LGS told me about the round. Several of of us n the chewing sessions were motorcycle riders and carried a 25 for protection was the reason the subject came up. He told the story of how he had hauled the same guy to the hospital three times when he was shot in the chest with a 25 and he lived through all three shooting. The guy must have been really stupid as the same person shot him with same gun in all three incidents. I bought a 38 to carry.

I like the "there is no substitute for cubic inches" used by old time hot rodders and think it works in the bullet size world also. A 44 caliber bullet displaces four times the area of a 22 bullet. Of course you have to take into consideration being able to hit your target with the larger calibers. If you can hit reliably with a 22 rimfire and can't hit the side of a barn with the 44 which will be most effective if you are ever in a situation where you have to shoot someone?

I carry what I can shoot reasonably well, fervently hope I'll never have a need for it, and plan on running away if possible as my first defense.
 
#31 ·
I carried a Taurus P22 22lr for a long time because it was tiny. My wife uses a Ruger SR22 and a S&W 15-22 for home defense. Both are loaded with Minimag 40 grain and are very reliable. I have no doubt a 22lr in the right hands can be deadly but because of neighbors having run ins with vicious dogs, I carry an LCR in 38 spl. If I need a tiny gun I now carry a Keltec P32. 8 rounds of European fmj with a 10 round back up mag. 10 oz fully loaded. USA 32 ACP is anemic.
 
#33 ·
I carry a concealed handgun for self defense, the defense necessary to end a threat to me and not to kill someone, whether armed or unarmed. While a .22 l.r. is without lethal weapon, it lends itself poorly as a handgun calibre to stop an armed threat effectively. My son works in a trauma center in Cleveland in the ICU and had about a dozen patients coming in or being brought in with gun shot wounds from handguns that would have still had the ability to fight. In all these cases rimfire or FMJ handgun ammo was used.

I am a bearded white man who lived almost a dozen years in the world's first black republic, in a crime ridden country, that makes major U.S. cities look safe and I carried a Glock 19 concealed and much preferred to rely on an AK to protect myself and my family. One of the guys that changed money for us was shot about 100 feet from our office with 13 rounds of 9mm FMJ and could still run to the safety of our business, where he quickly succumbed to his wounds.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I know that the 22 is berated by many and there are valid points for not using one such as reliability. Fact remains that this caliber like any caliber will produce fatal shots. I worked level one trauma centers for 37 years and I have lost count how many people died from a 22lr. I have seen a patient get shot 6 times with a .357 magnum in the face and head and survive. I truly believe if GOD wants you dead the caliber of the round has nothing to do with it.

When it comes to self defense there are many valid reasons to use a 22 lr handgun. One should consider the individuals physical abilities. Arthritis could be a factor for using a rimfire pistol, or recent surgery and other disabilities. Instead of offering criticism, offer helpful advice like suggesting premium ammo for the reliability issue, and if it is an automatic pistol, advice the inexperienced shooter that certain types of ammunitions will not cycle the action.

I have total confidence in a 22 lr as a viable defense round not because I have confidence in the gun or the caliber but because I am confident in what I can do, and caliber does not play a part in this.
 
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