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Scope help needed

49K views 44 replies 27 participants last post by  janejskelton 
#1 ·
Hey yall. I have a H&R Sportster .22WMR that I am interested in scoping. However, I have little experience with scopes, with the exception of using one or 2 scoped rifles that were already sighted in. I have no clue how exactly to work with a scope, as far as sighting it in is concerned. I understand that one adjustment knob is used to windage and the other for elevation, but know little about about scopes, there power, etc. If someone could run me through the basics and recommend a good scope I would appreciate it.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Yep, scopes are their own arcane science. First the nomenclature...

Scopes are typically described with something like 2-7x28mm. The numbers in front of the "x" show the magnification level of the scope. If there is only one number it is a fixed power scope. If there are two numbers in front of the "x" separated by a dash it is a variable power scope with the numbers giving the lowest and highest magnification levels. So 2-7x28mm is a 2 to 7 power scope with a 28mm objective lens. The ring that adjusts from one magnification level to another is usually at the end of the scope nearest to your eye.

The number to the right of the "x" is the diameter of the objective lens. As a general rule, bigger lenses give you brighter, clearer images. There is a break even point where the extra size adds little. That break even point is about 44mm so you don't need anything wider than that. How much smaller than 44mm it can be is related to the magnification level of the scope because of a factor called "exit pupil."

Exit pupil is what makes a scope "bright" and is a factor in how close you have to get your eye to the scope to see through it. Bigger is better. To figure out how big the exit pupil is, divide the size of the objective lens by the magnifcation level, so a 40mm lens at a mag level of 12 would have an exit pupil of 3.3mm. If your max mag level is only 9 then you can get the same brightness out of a 32mm lens (32 / 9 = 3.56) as the 12 power scope gets out of a 40mm lens. So, by extension, if you want lots of magnification you need a 44mm lens; if you want, say, 9x or less you can happily use a 32mm lens.

The next factor to consider is "parallax." A scope is focused to be parallax free at a given range. For discussion, let's say it is 100 yards. What that means is that the reticle (crosshairs) and a target at 100 yards are both on exactly the same visual plane. If you put the center of the reticle right on the "x" in the center of the target at 100 yards and then move your head around without moving the scope the reticle will stay right on the "x" --. there is no parallax. But if you now put the reticle on the "x" of a target at 50 yards and try the same trick you will see a slight movement in the reticle as you move your head around. If your eye is left of perfect center the reticle will look like it is to the right of the "x," and so on; there is parallax or, more properly, there is a parallax error. If you have parallax error you can't be sure your reticle is in the right place unless you get your head in exactly the same place each and every time you put your eye behind the scope. Obviously, you want to eliminate parallax error. How do we fix this? Two answers.

The first is to get a scope that is focused (parallax free) at the mid-point of the ranges we shoot most often. For a rimfire, say, we shoot at 25 yards to 100 yards so we want the scope focused at about 50 - 75 yards, and that is where rimfire and air rifle scopes are focused to be parallax free. You will still have a very small parallax error but it will be at the extremes of your ranges and not in the middle. Depending on the type of shooting you do this may be perfectly acceptable. Most "big bore" scopes are focused to be parallax free at about 125 yards and will have significant parallax error at the ranges typically used by rimfire shooters.

The other solution is to have a scope that you can focus to the exact range you are shooting at that moment; this is what an "adjustable objective lens" does for you. It is usually just called "adjustable objective" or "AO." Most often, scopes with AO have that designation added to the end of their description, such as 3-9x40mmAO. Most AO scopes use a focusing ring right on the objective lens. If the scope is a fixed power scope the focusing ring is sometimes at the end of the scope nearest the eye. Sometimes it is on the side of the scope.

Big bore scopes with AO usually focus down to 50 yards. Rimfire scopes have to get to much shorter ranges than that; how short a range they focus to is one measure of their quality so you always want to ask what their minimum focus range is. You certainly don't want one that stops at 50 yards if you plan to shoot at 25 yard targets. Most I have seen get down to 10 yards but it is something you have to check.

The next consideration is just how much magnification you need. If you are doing what I call "precision target shooting" at 100 yards you want lots of magnification. What I mean by "precision target" is that you are trying to get five shots into an area smaller than a 1" square or circle. To do this you need enough magnification to know for certain your reticle is precisely on the same aimpoint each and every time you pull the trigger. For this kind of work I would say 12x is a miniumum; 16x is better. I use 24x on my rifle that I use for this kind of shooting and think that is about as high as I need to go.

If you are doing that kind of shooting at 50 yards, with even smaller targets, I would say 9x is the absolute minimum and 12x would be better.

At the other end of the magnification level discussion we have hunting and plinking. Here, too much magnification is a hindrance because of the smaller field of view. High mag levels--> small field of view --> trying to find Mr. Rat while looking at the world through a soda straw. On the other hand, low mag levels--> wide field of view--> using a paper towel roll.

Again, range comes into play. If your hunting targets show up at 50 yards you can probably get by with a 4x scope. If they pop up at 25 yards you probably want a 2x, a "red-dot" scope, or no scope at all. If they are fast movers (rabbits) you need a wide field of view--> low power or red-dot or no scope, whereas stationary targets (squirrels hanging out near the top of a tree, rabbits lounging under bushes at longer distances) can get by with slightly less field of view--> more power.

Next up is the type of reticle. Duplex reticles have a wide crosshair that narrows down to a skinnier crosshair where they cross. But there is skinny and then there is skinny. The standard duplex crosshair will completely hide the X on most targets at 50 and 100 yards, so you don't know if you are aiming at the top of the "x," the middle of it, or at the bottom.

For super precise aiming you want "target crosshairs" or "fine crosshairs" that show you exactly where on the X you are aiming. These hairs look smaller than a pencil line at 100 yards, allowing you to dot the "i" on the fine print at the bottom of the target. But, as usual, there is a tradeoff -- fine crosshairs can disappear in dim light when you are trying to aim at Mr. Rabbit when he is standing against a dark background. Even in good light they are sometimes hard to find in a hurry, and almost impossible to keep sight of when following a moving target through the scope.

Most (but not all) mil-dot reticles use fine crosshairs, as do "target dot" reticles.

Even though it is not the best for precise target shooting, I prefer the standard duplex reticle. Sometimes it frustrates me when I'm going for small groups at 100 yards, but I see it is a good "general purpose" reticle suited to the type of shooting I usually do.

And lastly is the type of adjustment knob you want. Target style knobs are taller, can be turned by hand instead of requiring a coin or screwdriver, and are made to be adjusted frequently. If you move from a 25 yard target to a 100 yard target you just crank the knob the proper amount in the proper direction, put your crosshairs on the center of the target and shoot.

Hunter style knobs are made to be set and forgotten about. You sight in at your most frequent or desired range and if your target changes range you just aim over or under as needed to get the bullet where you want it.

Okay, where does that leave us? Maybe here:

Plinking at the occasional soda can, informal bull's eye matches or "small group" competition at 50 yards now and then, with the occasional long shot at that can 100 yards away? Then 2-7x or 3-9x or 4-12x will do for a variable magnification scope; and 4x or 6x will do if you want a fixed power scope. An objective lens of 28mm - 33mm will do just fine, but 40mm might be better if you go with 4-12x.

Regularly target shooting at ranges out to 100 yards or beyond? Then you'll want 16x or better along with a larger objective lens (40mm or more) to make up for the high mag level.

Shooting mostly at one range in one session? Hunter knobs.

Shooting at many different and very different ranges during one session? Target knobs.
 
#14 ·
Yep, scopes are their own arcane science. First the nomenclature...

Scopes are typically described with something like 2-7x28mm. The numbers in front of the "x" show the magnification level of the scope. If there is only one number it is a fixed power scope. If there are two numbers in front of the "x" separated by a dash it is a variable power scope with the numbers giving the lowest and highest magnification levels. So 2-7x28mm is a 2 to 7 power scope with a 28mm objective lens. The ring that adjusts from one magnification level to another is usually at the end of the scope nearest to your eye.

The number to the right of the "x" is the diameter of the objective lens. As a general rule, bigger lenses give you brighter, clearer images. There is a break even point where the extra size adds little. That break even point is about 44mm so you don't need anything wider than that. How much smaller than 44mm it can be is related to the magnification level of the scope because of a factor called "exit pupil."

Exit pupil is what makes a scope "bright," and is a factor in how close you have to get your eye to the scope to see through it. Bigger is better. To figure out how big the exit pupil is, divide the size of the objective lens by the magnifcation level... so a 40mm lens at a mag level of 12 would have an exit pupil of 3.3mm. If your max mag level is only 9, then you can get the same brightness out of a 32mm lens (32 / 9 = 3.56) as the 12 power scope gets out of a 40mm lens. So, by extension, if you want lots of magnification you need a 44mm lens; if you want, say, 9x or less, you can happily use a 32mm lens.

The next factor to consider is "parallax." A scope is focused to be parallax free at a given range. For discussion, let's say it is 100 yards. What that means is that the reticle (crosshairs) and a target at 100 yards are both on exactly the same visual plane. If you put the center of the reticle right on the "x" in the center of the target at 100 yards and then move your head around without moving the scope, the reticle will stay right on the "x"... there is no parallax. But if you now put the reticle on the "x" of a target at 50 yards and try the same trick, you will see a slight movement in the reticle as you move your head around. If your eye is left of perfect center, the reticle will look like it is to the right of the "x," and so on... there is parallax or, more properly, there is a parallax error. If you have parallax error, you can't be sure your reticle is in the right place unless you get your head in exactly the same place each and every time you put your eye behind the scope. Obviously, you want to eliminate parallax error. How do we fix this? Two answers.

The first is to get a scope that is focused (parallax free) at the mid-point of the ranges we shoot most often. For a rimfire, say, we shoot at 25 yards to 100 yards, so we want the scope focused at about 50 - 75 yards... and that is where rimfire and air rifle scopes are focused to be parallax free. You will still have a very small parallax error, but it will be at the extremes of your ranges and not in the middle. Most "big bore" scopes are focused to be parallax free at about 125 yards and will have significant parallax error at the ranges typically used by rimfire shooters.

The other solution is to have a scope that you can focus to the exact range you are shooting at that moment... this is what an "adjustable objective lens" does for you. It is usually called just "adjustable objective," or "AO." Most often, scopes with AO have that designation added to the end of their description, such as 3-9x40mmAO. Most AO scopes use a focusing ring right on the objective lens. If the scope is a fixed power scope, the focusing ring is sometimes at the end of the scope nearest the eye. And sometimes it is on the side of the scope.

Big bore scopes with AO usually focus down to 50 yards. Rimfire scopes have to get to much shorter ranges than that -- how short a range they focus to is one measure of their quality so you always want to ask what their minimum focus range is. You certainly don't want one that stops at 50 yards if you plan to shoot at 25 yard targets. Most I have seen get down to 10 yards but it is something you have to check.

The next consideration is just how much magnification you need. If you are doing what I call "precision target shooting" at 100 yards you want lots of magnification. What I mean by "precision target" is that you are trying to get five shots into an area smaller than a 1" square or circle. To do this you need enough magnification to know for certain your reticle is precisely on the same aimpoint each and every time you pull the trigger. For this kind of work, I would say 12x is a miniumum, 16x is better. I use 24x on my rifle that I use for this kind of shooting and think that is about as high as I need to go.

If you are doing that kind of shooting at 50 yards I would say 9x is the absolute minimum and 12x would be better.

At the other end of the magnification level discussion we have hunting and plinking. Here, too much magnification is a hinderence. It goes back to the discussion of "exit pupil"... high mag levels--> small exit pupil --> trying to find Mr. Rat while looking at the world through a soda straw. On the other hand, low mag levels--> big exit pupil--> using a paper towel roll.

Again, range comes into play. If your hunting targets show up at 50 yards, you can probably get by with a 4x scope. If they pop up at 25 yards you probably want a 2x, a "red-dot" scope, or no scope at all. And if they are fast movers (rabbits) you need a wide field of view--> low power or red-dot or no scope, whereas stationary targets (squirrels hanging out near the top of a tree) can get by with slightly less field of view--> more power.

Next up is the type of reticle. Duplex reticles have a wide crosshair that narrows down to a skinnier crosshair where they cross. But there is skinny, and then there is skinny. The standard duplex crosshair will completely hide the "x" on most targets at 50 and 100 yards, so you don't know if you are aiming at the top of the "x," the middle of it, or at the bottom.

For super precise aiming you want "target crosshairs" or "fine crosshairs" that show you exactly where on the "x" you are aiming. These hairs look smaller than a pencil line at 100 yards, allowing you to dot the "i" on the fine print at the bottom of the target. But, as usual, there is a tradeoff -- fine crosshairs can disappear in dim light when you are trying to aim at Mr. Rabbit when he is standing against a dark background. And even in good light they are sometimes hard to find in a hurry, and almost impossible to keep sight of when following a moving target through the scope.

Most (but not all) mil-dot reticles use fine crosshairs, as do "target dot" reticles.

Even though it is not the best for precise target shooting, I prefer the standard duplex reticle. Sometimes it frustrates me when I'm going for small groups at 100 yards, but I see it is a good "general purpose" reticle suited to the type of shooting I usually do.

And lastly is the type of adjustment knob you want. Target style knobs are taller, can be turned by hand instead of requiring a coin or screwdriver, and are made to be adjusted frequently. If you move from a 25 yard target to a 100 yard target you just crank the knob the proper amount in the proper direction, put your crosshairs on the center of the target and shoot.

Hunter style knobs are made to be set and forgotten about... you sight in at your most frequent or desired range and if your target changes range you just aim over or under as needed to get the bullet where you want it.

Okay, where does that leave us? Maybe here:

Plinking at the occasional soda can, informal bull's eye matches or "small group" competition at 50 yards now and then, with the occasional long shot at that can 100 yards away? Then 2-7x or 3-9x or 4-12x will do for a variable magnification scope; and 4x or 6x will do if you want a fixed power scope. An objective lens of 28mm - 33mm will do just fine, but 40mm might be better if you go with 4-12x.

Regularly target shooting at ranges out to 100 yards or beyond? Then you'll want 16x or better along with a larger objective lens (40mm or more) to make up for the high mag level.

Shooting mostly at one range in one session? Hunter knobs.

Shooting at many different and very different ranges during one session? Target knobs.
To mount the scope, first separate your rings. Some rings are made as matched sets, so you don't want to get the top of one matched with the bottom of the other. You also want to keep the "front" aligned, so that one side of the top always stays lined up with that side on the bottom ring, etc. So, before beginning, separate your rings (or mark them with a bit of masking tape) in such a way that you can keep them matched properly.

Next Loosely mount the lower half of the rings to the spots on the rail or dovetail where you think they will end up. Put your scope in the lower half of the rings then loosely attach the upper half of the rings. You want the scope to move back and forth in the rings fairly easily but you want the rings clamped well enough on the rifle that you don't drop the scope off and onto the floor while you're moving the rifle around.

Now set the scope to its lowest magnification level and hold the rifle as though you are shooting it. Move the scope back and forth until the eye-relief is just right. (if you see a dark shadow around the rim of the eyepiece, you are not "just right"). Put the rifle down (without doing anything to the scope) then pick it back up, get your cheek weld, and recheck to make sure the eye-relief is just right. Do this until you are satisfied the scope is properly positioned fore-and-aft.

Now set the scope to its highest magnification level and do it all over again. Hopefully you can get the scope in a position where the eye-relief works for both high and low magnification. If you have to choose one over the other, choose the one you think you will use most often.

You might find you have to move the rings from the spots where you originally put them while you are doing your adjusting. Tighten down the halves of the ring you are not moving so that it will trap the scope where you want it while you adjust the other ring. Don't forget to loosen that ring back up before you start sliding the scope back and forth again.

Once you have the scope where you want it, tighten the rings to the rail or dovetail. But before moving on to tighten the ring halves together, make sure your crosshairs are perfectly aligned on the horizontal and vertical planes.

They make a special gizmo to help with this, a sort of level that is used by the gun shop when you pay them to boresight a scope. I've learned to do it myself by aiming the scope at a line I know to be level, or the vertical wall of distant building (which should be more-or-less plumb), and lining up the crosshairs on the line, and then twisting the rifle while holding the scope level so that the vertical crosshair perfectly bisects the bore. It will take some trial and error, but you can do it.

Once you have that done, tighten the upper half of the rings to the lower half. When tightening the ring halves, do them little bit at at time (like the lug nuts on a car) and try to end up with an equal amount of gap between the ring halves all the way around. Watch to make sure the scope does not twist itself out of level, and check to make sure the crosshairs are still level and plumb when you finish.
To sight in the scope, you want as stable a firing position as possible and, generally, fairly accurate (consistent) ammo. You want at least some kind of front rest. Set up a target about 25 yards out to get started. Ideally your target should have some vertical and horizontal lines on it.... a grid pattern is perfect. Use a small level to make sure the lines on the target are level and plumb when you staple the target to its holder. Of course, you want to do that downrange... you don't staple the target and then carry it down range!

Now that you are sure your target lines are plumb and level, you can be sure your rifle is plumb and level when you line the crosshairs of your scope up on the grid lines. Among other things, this makes sure a "left" adjustment on your scope really moves things left, and not left and up, for example.

Get in a good firing position and take a shot at the intersection of two lines on the target. After the shot, get the scope lined up back where you had it aimed. Now, without moving the rifle, move the crosshairs by using your adjustment knob. You want to move them from where they are to where the bullet actually hit.

Now shoot three or five shots at an intersection of lines. Find the center of this group of shots and adjust your scope until it is centered at the center of the group.

Now move your target out to the range you want your scope sighted in and shoot a 3 shot group. Again, make sure your target is plumb and level. And, again, adjust your crosshairs to the center of the group. By now you should be able to say, "I need to go 1/2" left, so that is two clicks on the adjusting knob."

As for adjustments, if the shot went left of where you were aiming you move the adjuster towards "right"... the arrows on the scope are marked as though you are steering the bullet hole towards the aimpoint.

Good luck :bthumb:
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I'm glad you found it helpful.

That's because I'm so new I still still see things through a newbie's eyes :p
STICKY!
 
#3 · (Edited)
I have no clue how exactly to work with a scope, as far as sighting it in is concerned. I understand that one adjustment knob is used to windage and the other for elevation...
To mount the scope, first separate your rings. Some rings are made as matched sets so you don't want to get the top of one matched with the bottom of the other. You also want to keep the "front" aligned, so that one side of the top always stays lined up with that side on the bottom ring, etc. So, before beginning, mark each ring half with a bit of masking tape in such a way that you can keep them matched properly.

Next, mount the lower half of the rings to the spots on the rail or dovetail where you think they will end up. Put your scope in the lower half of the rings then loosely attach the upper half of the rings. You want the scope to move back and forth in the rings fairly easily but you want the rings clamped well enough on the rifle and to the scope that you don't drop the scope off and onto the floor while you're moving the rifle around.

Now set the scope to its highest magnification level and hold the rifle as though you are shooting it. If you will do most of your shooting from a standing position, do this standing up. If you expect to do most of your shooting from a bench, sit down at the bench. Now move the scope back and forth until the eye-relief is just right. When you have it "just right," the image you see through the scope will completely fill the eyepiece. If you see a dark shadow around the rim of the eyepiece or if it looks like you are looking down a long tunnel you are not "just right." Gently lift the scope up a hair and push it fore or aft until you get the image to completely fill the eyepiece. When you get that done, snug the top half of the rings just a little, to keep the scope from shifting, then put the rifle down and pick it back up, get your cheek weld, and recheck to make sure the eye-relief is just right. Do this until you are satisfied the scope is properly positioned fore-and-aft.

Right now, the scope is positioned where you want it when it is turned up to max magnification level. You have more room to play with in terms of eye-relief and position of the eye when the scope is turned down to lower mag levels but you want to make sure that you will still be able to get your head in a comfortable position when dialed down to the low magnification. Set the scope to its lowest magnification level and see if you can get a comfortable cheek weld while getting a proper view through the scope. If not, move the scope as necessary. Hopefully you can get the scope in a position where the eye-relief works for both high and low magnification. If you have to choose one over the other, choose the one you think you will use most often.

You might find you have to move the rings from the spots where you originally put them while you are doing your adjusting. If so, tighten down the halves of the ring you are not moving so that it will trap the scope where you want it while you adjust the other ring. Don't forget to loosen that ring back up before you start sliding the scope back and forth again.

Once you have the scope where you want it, tighten the rings to the rail or dovetail. But before moving on to tighten the ring halves together, make sure your crosshairs are perfectly aligned on the horizontal and vertical planes. They make a special gizmo to help with this, a sort of level that is used by the gun shop when you pay them to boresight a scope. I've learned to do it myself by aiming the scope at a line I know to be level, or the vertical wall of distant building (which should be more-or-less plumb), lining up the crosshairs on the line, and then twisting the rifle while holding the scope level so that the vertical crosshair perfectly bisects the bore. It will take some trial and error, but you can do it. Later, at the range, you can shoot a "vertical line test" to fine tune if necessary.

Once you have that done, tighten the upper half of the rings to the lower half. When tightening the ring halves, do them little bit at at time (like the lug nuts on a car) and try to end up with an equal amount of gap between the ring halves all the way around. Watch to make sure the scope does not twist itself out of level while you are tightening things down and check to make sure the crosshairs are still level and plumb when you finish.
 
#4 · (Edited)
To sight in the scope, you want as stable a firing position as possible and, generally, fairly accurate (consistent) ammo. You want at least some kind of front rest. Set up a target about 25 yards out to get started. Ideally your target should have some vertical and horizontal lines on it; a grid pattern is perfect. Use a small level to make sure the lines on the target are level and plumb when you staple the target to its holder. Of course, you want to do that downrange; you don't staple the target and then carry it down range!

Now that you are sure your target lines are plumb and level, you can be sure your rifle is plumb and level when you line the crosshairs of your scope up on the grid lines. Among other things, this makes sure a "left" adjustment on your scope really moves things left, and not left and up, for example.

If you have a bolt-action rifle, start by pulling out the bolt and getting the rifle situated in the rest so it is pointed at the middle of the target. Peer down the bore (from the chamber end!) and try to get the center of the target lined up in the center of the bore. It doesn't have to be exact but the closer the better. Once that is done, look through the scope to see where it is pointing. If it is not pointed at the middle of the target, use the adjusting knobs on the scope to steer the reticle to the the center of the target. Note that things are going to appear to work backwards -- if you want to steer the crosshairs to the left, you will have to turn the dial in the direction labeled "right;" if you want to steer the crosshairs up you will have to turn the dial in the direction labeled "down." Depending on how much wiggling around the rifle does while you are fiddling with the scope, you might have to do this more than once.

Once you have the scope adjusted so it is pointing the same place the bore is pointing, install the bolt, get in a good firing position, and take a shot at the intersection of two lines on the target. After the shot, get the scope lined up back where you had it aimed. Now, without moving the rifle, look through the scope as you move the crosshairs by using your adjustment knobs. You want to move the crosshairs from where you were aiming to where the bullet actually hit.

Now shoot three or five shots at an intersection of lines. Find the center of this group of shots and, using the same technique as above, adjust your scope from your aiming point until it is centered at the center of the group you just fired.

Now move your target out to the range you want your scope sighted in and shoot a 3 shot group. Again, make sure your target is plumb and level and, again, adjust your crosshairs to the center of the group. By now you should be close enough that you're just fine tuning by figuring out how many clicks on the knob you need to move and doing it that way instead of steering the crosshairs while looking through the scope. That is to say, use the markings on your knobs in the "normal" way -- if you want to move the point of impact to the right, turn the knob in the direction labeled "right." Etc.

Good luck :bthumb:
 
#29 ·
To sight in the scope, you want as stable a firing position as possible and, generally, fairly accurate (consistent) ammo. You want at least some kind of front rest. Set up a target about 25 yards out to get started. Ideally your target should have some vertical and horizontal lines on it; a grid pattern is perfect. Use a small level to make sure the lines on the target are level and plumb when you staple the target to its holder. Of course, you want to do that downrange; you don't staple the target and then carry it down range!

Now that you are sure your target lines are plumb and level, you can be sure your rifle is plumb and level when you line the crosshairs of your scope up on the grid lines. Among other things, this makes sure a "left" adjustment on your scope really moves things left, and not left and up, for example.

Get in a good firing position and take a shot at the intersection of two lines on the target. After the shot, get the scope lined up back where you had it aimed. Now, without moving the rifle, look through the scope as you move the crosshairs by using your adjustment knob. You want to move them from where they are to where the bullet actually hit.

Now shoot three or five shots at an intersection of lines. Find the center of this group of shots and, using the same technique as above, adjust your scope from your aiming point until it is centered at the center of the group you just fired.

Now move your target out to the range you want your scope sighted in and shoot a 3 shot group. Again, make sure your target is plumb and level and, again, adjust your crosshairs to the center of the group. By now you should be close enough that you're just fine tuning by figuring out how many clicks on the knob you need to move and doing it that way instead of steering the crosshairs while looking through the scope.

As for adjustments when moving the crosshairs while looking through the scope, if the shot went left of where you were aiming you move the adjuster towards "right;" the arrows on the scope are marked as though you are steering the bullet hole towards the aimpoint.

Good luck :bthumb:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH !! As I've said before this is BAR NONE the BEST Fire arm Forum PERIOD !!

And THANK YOU SO MUCH SOPHIA. YOU HAVE HELP ME OUT TREMENDOUSLY on my venture getting back into shooting :bthumb:

Thank You again and it's RFC members like yourself and a few others that make this the BEST FIRE ARM FORUM ON THE NET

CHAS
 
#11 ·
STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY!!!!!!!
i searched for hours and didnt find this anywhere and believe me this is exactly was what i was looking for as for the one that is stickied it doesnt even come close to what a new to shooting person needs to know
 
#12 ·
New Scope Bible

I'm buying my first variable scope for a new CZ tomorrow and I have to say I found this post just in time to save me from my own ignorance of scopes. This post is now printed out so I can study it in detail tonight. I am going to splurge on a variable Leupold and now I feel I have a better understanding of what kind of scope to get.
I have stapled the print out pages together and until something better comes along, this is the Bible on scopes for me. Thank you RFC and special thanks to you Sophia.
Tomorrow I will shop with confidence. :bthumb:
 
#16 ·
I just ordered (from Natchez) a BSA 6-18x40AO 22 Rifle scope for my 452 Trainer. First, I hope this scope is in the ball park of what I should be using for bench rest target shooting, and secondly, I hope it's right for 50-150 yard shooting.

I looked at the ring section but this particular scope wasn't listed so I could sure use some advice on what rings to buy.

Ted
 
#17 · (Edited)
Mounting a scope on the CZ Trainer is a bit tricky.

1. Do you know how to remove the rear sight blade? It is explained in the CZ manual. This might give up an extra .1 to .2 inch of clearance.

The problem with the Trainer is the rear sight and the location of the scope bell relative to the rear sight. Other issues are gun balance, as a tall mounted scope tends to throw off gun balance. There is also issue of cheek weld, and scope/eyeball line of sight! The Trainer stock was designed to give best cheek/LOS view with low mounted iron sights, not scopes. As such, I strongly suggest buying some cheek riser pads to raise your eyeball level up to the scopes optical axis.

There are three possible cases that can occur, depending on length of scope.

a. Scope is small enough to sit behind rear sight. In general this means scope length must be 12 inches or less, but the eye relief also factor in scope placement, so sometimes the scope length must be less than 11 inches.

b. Scopes bell sits right on the rear sight. This probably occurs for the vast majority of scopes in the 12 to 16 inch range. In this case, a tall ring is need to allow scope bell to clear rear sight.

c. Scope is long enough that scope bell completely clears rear sight completely. In this case, scope is probably 18 inches or longer.

Sorry, but unless someone owns exactly your scope, you are going to have to carefully measure your scope's length, taking into account bell clearance relative to rear sight. Even with rear blade removed, the rear sight appears to extend about 3mm above the receiver top.

There is an easier method, assume you need to clear the rear site, and assume it is 3mm. Use method shown in this thread to calculate ring heigh, and then add an additional 3mm to that value to clear rear sight. WARNING: please do not assume that the value of 3mm is accurate. This is a rough eyeball measurement on my part. DO YOUR OWN VERIFICATION and measure it yourself carefully!!
 
#18 ·
Thanks, MGT. I did not know the 452 Trainer was designed primarily for use with iron sights. Two weeks ago my left eye was Laser repaired and I now have 20-20 vision (corrected with glasses), so maybe I don't need a scope after all. When I wrote that I had ordered the BSA they were actually out of stock at Natchez; the order is in a "wish list" category with notification to follow restocking, so I'm not committed to buying it.

When I last shot the Trainer three weeks ago I didn't realize I had a vision problem until the next day, when I failed to qualify during a routine Arizona Rangers qualification because I couldn't see the front sight on my Glock 21.
Shot a 49; I usually shoot 90-93.

I had no idea there were so many problems inherent in scoping a Trainer.

Ted
 
#24 ·
10/22 TD mounting??

I have a blackstock ssbbl with a friend's Counterpoint 3-9 x32 scope. Works great BUT- does not fit in Ruger bag. Rings are to nearly ear of receiver, rings are centered on scope. Need about two inches further back to allow bag to close.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
 
#25 ·
Even if you could bring the scope back, how would that affect your shooting position?... would you still have a full view through the scope and be comfortable?

They do make extended rings, but you might end up with whiplash if the scope is back too far. A new rifle bag that's more suitable for a scope would probably be cheaper than extended rings and you could just save the Ruger bag for a future rifle.
 
#26 ·
Those 3 pages probably covered it BUT--

1- make sure the turrets (adjustments) are on the RIGHT and TOP of the mounted scope...or you will never get it sighted in.

2- NEVER turn and scope ring using the scope as the 'turner'. That just puts strain/torsion on a fragile tube w/ very fragile lenses at each end.

3- Scope ring screws dont have to be that tight- They are NOT lug nuts on your truck.

4- clean all screws and holes in both rings/mounts and rifle w/ alcohol. Dry and then mount scope. Locktite aint necessary. A little drop of fingernail polish on each screw helps a lot. A little dab of rubber cement in the bottom of the scope ring keeps the scope from sliding. Probably WAY overkill.

Great job, Sophia. Our grand daughter is Sophia.
 
#31 ·
I realise I'm coming late to the party here.
First off I'd like to thank Sophia, not just for the info but for the way she explains it. Really great job.

There is one thing I don't think was mentioned that can drive you mad with second hand scopes especially and that is centering the scope before zeroing to make sure you're not starting out with the adjustments already bottomed out.
Either count clicks and wind back to the middle or simply place a mirror on the front of the scope and match up the two crosshair images.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I wanted to talk about a few things that are not mentioned yet. Most relate to vintage optics, my interest area.

Fixed power versus variable. Most scopes today are variable power. Why? Because of the belief that multipurpose is always better. I don't really agree, and prefer fixed power. There are several reasons. With the dual purpose (dirt and street) motorcycles of my youth we used to say "It can do both, but not very good in the dirt, OR the street."

Optics have come a long way with precision manufacturing. Yet, some optical principals are incontrovertible. One is that the number of lenses, and the glass-to-air surfaces, determines how much light is lost in transmission. Lens coatings have come a long way, and they help reduce the loss. But some loss still occurs when the light goes between each lens. A variable lens has more optical elements and lenses. All that costs more money. A $50 variable scope can't have very high quality engineering or manufacturing. Or materials.....

The fittings and threads required for a variable create more room for alignment error, inert gas loss/fogging, and general breakdowns. I use a lot of optics that are 50, 75, even 100 years old. They are usually simple tubes with few moving parts. Will that 10-25X mil-dot with glowing LED recticle be working in 50 years? 15?

Optical science is about tradeoffs. You can build a 6X scope with few aberrations and good brightness. You can build a 20X with few aberrations. But it's a much more difficult engineering proposition to get a 9x-20x to be good across all powers. Most variables look pretty good at low-medium power settings, but start to have edge blur or worse as you get to maximum.

Most of us with variable scopes pick a power setting, and leave it there. I'm talking .22 shooters here, and ones that are plinking and hunting. Seldom have I ever seen someone adjusting the magnification up and down depending on plinking conditions. Variable power is a gimmick at worst, or at best a trade off to try to get multiple uses out of one scope.

This thread is about .22 scopes for new shooters. So I'm just saying, consider a fixed power, if you know you are going to just plink, or just hunt, or just do benchrest target. Because you'll never adjust the power setting on a variable once you find what you like. And the optics and longevity of a fixed power scope will probably be better.
 
#36 ·
A few weeks ago a member had a question about barrel harmonics which I tried to help him with but assured him their were talented people on this forum who could give him a much better explanation. And along came Sophie and what a job she did. I am new here, only a member a few months but have learned so much from the members. Every day I look forward to logging on and reading the new posts. I was a cabinet maker for 27 years and after reading George's posts I learned several new things about wood finishing and restoration. Thanks so much for making me feel welcomed and for the information you share. Thank you, Profsrgary.
 
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