Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner

Struggling and need help. Is 36x too powerful?

2K views 25 replies 18 participants last post by  Nick7274 
#1 ·
Hi all. Hope everyone is well. I have been setting my Annie 1416 up, and I installed a Weaver T36 on it.

For the time being, I am using it at 50 yards. I am new to this type of shooting, and my eyes are good, but not great anymore. I shoot groups of.375-.450 ( 5 shot)

I am using targets with 10 targets per page. By the 6th or 7th target ( plus 1 or 2 sighter groups) my eye feels fatigued and struggles to focus.

I am shooting almost as well with my CZ 455 and a cheap 4-16 scope. Not as well but close. The 4-16 doesn't fatigue my eye though.

I don't expect to stretch out to 100 yds anytime soon, but eventually I will.

I am considering putting the cheap scope on the Annie just to see if it improves with less power, but hate the idea of having to set both scopes again when I finish.

As I said, I am new to BR shooting, and being my club is at minimal capacity, I cant ask local members for help.

I guess I am asking is 36x too powerful for 50 yards? Will it fatigue my eye less at 100 yards?

Thank you for any help or insight you can provide.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Brother Redlightrich; As far as 36,s go Weaver in good. Try shooting mid day or when it's bright out. Make sure you focus both ends to get it perfect. Might try making sure both eyes are open also. 36 is probably the lower end of current benchrest trends, so no 36 isn't too much. Good luck Brother.
 
#3 ·
Dear Redlightrich:

As the previous poster stated, make sure that the reticle is focused using the rear adjustment on the rear lens, turning it in and out until the reticle becomes sharp and clear. Adjust the parallax on the objective lens while you are at it. A quick search in these forums will get you the instructions, pretty detailed and there are better descriptions then what I could provide.

As you are shooting, make sure you take short breaks removing your eye from behind the scope, and focusing on various objects at differing distances to give your eyeball a break. You easily can get eye fatigue staring though a high power rifle scope or spotting scope continuously without "stretching" your eyeballs.

When I was coaching a couple teams, I would be peering through a spotting scope for a long period of time and had to take breaks or I would get eye fatigue and even headaches. While it might not be a practical solution for you, I ended up getting a high quality pair of Binoculars with various eyepieces for extended viewing both on the shooting line and shipwatching on the great lakes.

While you might have a limited amount of time at the range (gotta get back and make dinner for the family, etc), it is tough to concentrate looking through the scope continuously for any length of time. Look away frequently during wind gusts, watch vegetation that is effected by the wind, wind flags, etc. when the conditions are not ideal for sending a shot and you are waiting at the bench for them to temporarily improve.

Regards,
Crankster
 
#5 ·
Thank you all for your thougthful responses, and to clarify, by the time I have taken 45 shots or so, is when my eye gets blurry. It is my right eye, which is also my dominant eye. I did try to adjust the eyepiece and the AO, however, maybe I need to fine tune it a bit more.

As I said, I am kind of new to this style of shooting. A few years back, when my eyes were crisp, I shot mostly handgun. But being I have a strong desire to shoot accurately, I am shifting more to scoped rifle. The joys of getting older.

Anyway, I do appreciate all responses. And I will try to continue to work with my Weaver.

I hope you all stay safe and healthy

Rich
 
#6 ·
Perhaps you could try the weaver T-26 in place of the T-36 or if you can find one a Leopold T-26 equivalent or one of their veriables if you can find one reasonably priced.

I find my 36x a bit strong but even in a timed event I have time to take a eye break in between each shot.
Everyone is different , the only time I really deal with eye strain is low light or poor optics.


"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
 
#7 ·
The T-36 is a good scope (I own 3 of them) but not something that you necessarily want to spend a lot of time behind without taking a break. For the price the T-36 is about as good as it gets for a scope with such a high magnification level. But there's a reason why there are scopes out there that cost $1,000 - $4,000+. I too get eye strain if I spend too much time behind one of my T-36's. My NF BR 12 - 42× on the other hand I can sit behind all day without an issue. It also cost 5× what the Weaver cost. I like the suggestion above about possibly dropping down to a lower magnification scope. You really don't need 36× @50 yards (especially if you still have decent eyesight). If you were shooting @100 yards then you would probably need the 36×. You could get away with a decent 5-20×. IME you get more strain with a fixed power scope than a variable. Not sure if that is common for others as well.
 
#8 ·
Pilots during ww2 used a supplement called bilberry. It helps with night vision. I use it if im going to drive at night. It helps. Could be placebo effect , but it still helps. Think i try it for shooting. You often see the bench rest guys taking breaks, relaxing between targets, this helps too.
 
#9 ·
High magnification results in a very short depth of field (the amount that is in focus), so it can be tiring to look through. Lower magnification results is a huge depth of field, so it is easy to look through.

The Weaver is a good scope for the money but it does not have good sharpness. At 36x at 50 yards you expect the target to be in great focus, and your eye fights to achieve that. It isn't going to happen.

Now you know why so many people spend big bucks on scopes. :bthumb:
 
#10 ·
You can say it this way. Better definition is easier to look at. That's why I used to push Leopold but with the freedom line I think Leopold has cheapened their scopes in all around quality.

A Leopold target 36x has much better definition than the weaver does and it is also a bit more expensive as well.

"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
 
#12 ·
My T-36 has a minimum parallax/focus of 50 yds. If your "50" yd distance is a little short, you may not be able to get your sight picture in perfect focus and that will indeed cause eyestrain.

The T-36 reticle also has very fine cross hairs, so if you're shooting at a target with a black bull, that close to you, with that much magnification, you may be struggling to see the reticle against the background. Another potential cause of eyestrain. Even at 100 yds., I like to use orange targets for that very reason.

I like my T-36 very much, but it isn't as versatile as a variable scope.
 
#13 ·
Scopes and Age

Some scopes are easier to use than others in the same magnification. For me, crosshair size and tube diameter present different characteristics.

I found the 1/8" target dot ultra-fine crosshairs to be an unnecessary pain (especially without the dot). Even when focused with they ocular end, they are more difficult to see than heavier crosshairs. These include Weaver 24X and 36X.

This is compounded by trying to get 36X out of a 1" scope. Not what i would call user friendly regarding eye relief compared to say a 1" 24X scope which I have found to be plenty for my 60 yard range.

Remember Hunter Benchrest? They did pretty good with 6X scopes!

I noticed the difficulty many years ago, not so much for me but but for my 80 year old Dad. He could see the target just fine, it was the crosshairs he had trouble seeing. He is happy with a 30mm Mueller 8-32X target scope.

I made a list of scopes with heavier crosshairs. Unfortunately all are discontinued but available used if you watch.

Sightron Big Sky 24X has crosshairs twice as thick as the Sightron 36X. Not so for the regular SII models.

The only 1" 36X scope I could find available with heavier crosshairs was the B&L 36X. Still had the 1" 36X fussiness about it though.

The 30mm Leupold 35X has crosshairs twice as thick as the 40X and 45X. The 30mm tube makes it more user friendly than 36X in a 1" tube.

The Weaver V24 (6-24X) Varmint Dot has a nice fine reticle that's pretty easy to see...Tom
 
#14 ·
Two things come to mind:

1) make sure the scope is set up correctly as stated above. Follow the procedures for both eyepiece set up and parallax set up.
2) really make an effort to keep both eyes open during shooting. If you relax, your brain will give precedence to the image from the scope. I think of it as simply staring straight ahead. If you are straining/squinting to get the target in focus, or craning your neck to get a good eye position, something is not set up right and go back to step 1)

As a last resort: remember that folks' eyesight do change over time, and almost all of us past the age of 45 or so are trying to focus a lens in our eyes that is getting stiffer over time. This is called "presbyopia" and will affect everyone lucky enough to live long enough. See an eye doctor and have your eyes tested.

Good luck and enjoy that Weaver. I have several of them and find them great for 50 yard work.
 
#16 ·
After having several 36x and looking at 25 yards I firmly think 24x40 or 26x40 is plenty but at 50 I can go either way.

As magnification goes up glass quality and resolution become more important.


"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
 
#17 ·
I have the T-36X as well as an older Leupold 36x on two benchrest .22 I used in ARA. As others have stated about adjusting the scopes, also be sure you are taking some breaks. In ARA, shooting 25 record shots plus fouling and sighter shots are completed in 20 minutes. Then a break to change targets, clean gun etc before the next target. That can still become a bit weary on the eyes after 6 targets. Try taking a break for 5 minutes every 20 minutes are so and see if your eyes do better. My eyes as I have gotten older have less elasticity and don't focus well after couple of targets. But given 15 minutes and they are back to normal.
Come to think of it I have never noticed the elasticity problem in 3P. Again, most strings are 10 or 20 minutes.
Rich
 
#18 ·
Thanks again all. I will try to play with this some more. I will attempt to adjust the AO and the eyepiece to get a clearer view.
I have recently spent time with the eye doctor, and my distance and close vision is good, but nowhere as good as it was just 2 years ago.

I am finding it a little disappointing that my CZ 455 with a cheapo 4x16 scope (although zero does change from time ot time) is giving me almost as nice groups as my Annie with the weaver.

I expect the Annie to do better once I dial in the optics.

I do very much appreciate all the input.

BTW, I am wondering, those that use glasses or contacts, do you wear them when shooting, or rely on the scope alone?
 
#19 ·
I wear bifocal glasses to shoot with. I also use Weaver 46X scopes and I believe the crosshair and dot is the same size as the T-36, extremely small and it also most gets lost on the target. so getting the reticle focus is critical.

It might be as some have suggested that your ocular is not focused correctly. you need to adjust it so the crosshairs and dot are at the sharpest focus. I generally do this looking thru the scope at a light colored wall, remember you are adjusting the reticle focus and not the focus of the scope.
also keep in mind your eyes will adjust to focus in on the reticle so use short glances when adjusting the ocular. when done then adjust the focus to the range your are to shoot at.

Lee
 
#21 ·
As many have mentioned, higher magnification needs good glass.
16x in a scope with "ok" glass is a lot sharper and brighter than 36x in another with the same optical quality.

I've got a Vortex Diamondback HP 4-16 that's quite good for the money, but everything is relative. It's like looking through a Coke bottle compared to a high end Nightforce or Leupold.

Again, as many have said, be sure the reticle is focused for your eye. If it isn't, your eye is constantly shifting to try and keep both the reticle and target image sharp.

Shoot with both eyes open. Use a blinder on the side of the scope if you have to, the same as with competition aperture sights.

Your CZ may outshoot your Annie, I wouldn't get too wrapped around that axle. You also may not have the Annie's preferred ammo yet.

.375-.450 groups at 50 are nothing to sneeze at from a light weight rifle.

I would suggest putting the T36 on the CZ, and vice versa for a few range sessions and see what happens.

The eyestrain issue is a separate problem from accuracy, though it can certainly contribute to it.
 
#22 ·
Get an eye exam, insurance will pay for most of it.

5 years ago, I was getting very frustrated with shooting, fine detail work and reading very fine print. Kept blaming my eyeglasses.

Went to a high end optometrist ... told me I got cataracts.

What do you mean I got cataracts, that’s for old people! :eek:

“Well, you’re not a young pup anymore.” :mad:

So, I got the cataract surgery with the toroidal lens to correct astigmatism.

20/15 left, 20/20 right.

All those problems went away.
 
#24 ·
Thank you again, I have had 2 intense eye exams recently. I wear multifocal contacts Think bifocals but in contact form.

I went out today and did more scope adjusting. I shot a .344 and a .368 group, and no I am not deducting the .222 as some do.

So I was sort of pleased. I had a separate issue with the scope, so I will post that separately as to not divert this thread.

All the replies were helpful, so I thank you all

Be safe and well

Rich
 
#25 ·
I am struggling with same issue as the original poster, but I have a different question.

I just bought a 36X Sightron II and I am really struggling with it. I had planned to buy a used 36X Leupold but got talked into a Sightron instead. 15 years ago I had a Leupold 36X scope and had no problems with it. A lot has changed in 15 years, both optically and for me biologically. It could just be my eyes are worse and in fact I have had cataract surgery so I am sure they are, but I am surprised about the tiny eye box of the Sightron.


For anyone who has experience with both... Does the Sightron 36X have a much less forgiving eye box than the Leupold or Weaver 36X scopes? Would you expect an Athlon Midas to be the same? Better or worse?
 
#26 ·
I am struggling with same issue as the original poster, but I have a different question.

I just bought a 36X Sightron II and I am really struggling with it. I had planned to buy a used 36X Leupold but got talked into a Sightron instead. 15 years ago I had a Leupold 36X scope and had no problems with it. A lot has changed in 15 years, both optically and for me biologically. It could just be my eyes are worse and in fact I have had cataract surgery so I am sure they are, but I am surprised about the tiny eye box of the Sightron.

For anyone who has experience with both... Does the Sightron 36X have a much less forgiving eye box than the Leupold or Weaver 36X scopes? Would you expect an Athlon Midas to be the same? Better or worse?
I think all the 36× fixed power optics have a tiny eye box. I would say the Sightron has slightly better clarity than the Weaver 36× and slightly worse than the Leupold 36×. I think the eye box is pretty comparable on all 3. I don't think you would have any better luck with the Athlon.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top