Small caliber reloading - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:28 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,310
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)


Log in to see fewer ads
In that 'case' I have used fully fire-formed brass and only resize to where it easliy rechambers in one gun and lock the adjustment. You will have a compromised thin spot in the case but will get far more reloads than if you conventionally full length resize and blow it back out over and over; that is a recipe for case separation. This is the virtue of reloading, you can custom produce ammo to a given chamber that is less than optimum and still get satisfaction.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:56 AM
Dobeardsley
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2017
Location: 
Klamath Falls, OR
Posts: 
77
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
“Whatever die/s you end up getting for the 17 Hornady Hornet, I suggest you make sure it is a bushing die so you can control, as well as keep consistent, neck tension. Also, keep your brass segregated by Lot # because there is quite a bit of variance in the neck thickness of the 17 HH brass.”

B23,
Do you ever turn the brass to get more uniform neck sizing? I can see how varying neck tension can be a problem for consistency. Or is the brass too thin already to shave more off?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-02-2019, 03:59 PM
flangster

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
4,026
TPC Rating: 
100% (33)
I have also just started reloading for the .17 Hornet. It has been like going back to school. LOL. While the factory ammo did OK at 100 yards, my first batch of 50 handloads shot all over the place. Nothing like a group among them. I had shot 50 rounds of factory ammo and then neck sized the cases only. Still trying to figure out what I did wrong.

It could have been the charges (which are small, comparatively, and very sensitive to a kernal of powder clinging to a funnel spout or the like). It could have been too, that neck sizing with a Wilson bushing die was not as simple a process as I had made it out to be for .222 and .223. Or I could have chosen a neck sizing bushing that was too small.

My powder of choice was AA 1680 and I have been using 20 grain bullets in a CZ 527.

I am starting again with unfired brass. I will FL size them to have uniform neck tension and then try again.

I needed: new funnel, new sizing/seating dies, new shellholder for the press, new case holder for my primer tool, new cleaning rod for the rifle, new bushing for my Hornady tool for measuring the case length to the bullet ogive, new ammo boxes and so on. I refer to this all as the "new caliber tax," which suddenly reminded me why I had sworn off new calibers last year. . . . which lasted until I saw the CZ 527 Varmint chambered in .17 Hornet. So much for internal resolve.
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though

Last edited by flangster; 10-02-2019 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-03-2019, 05:35 AM
56S is online now

Join Date: 
May 2012
Posts: 
1,012
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Keep your 17HH clean. It took me a while to figure this one out on my 527. Seemed like everytime I started testing loads each got progressively worse. It sure wasn't the recoil causing flinching. 15-20 rounds is about all I do before a patch or two.

Another thing I've noticed: Seating depth. Usually I go longer but my 17HH prefers to be factory ammo length with the Hornady 20gr.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:22 AM
56S is online now

Join Date: 
May 2012
Posts: 
1,012
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Another thing to watch for is the weight of the brass. Mine are mixed factory loads and brass purchased new. There are two distinct weight groups in my brass. I don't recall the actual weights but mine are sorted in two groups. Accuracy did improve using only one of the two groups of brass.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:00 AM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,310
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
With my 22Hornets I ended up using the same lot of brass, mixed lots and brands was not good.
I used only enough neck tension to securely hold the bullets.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:49 AM
BobSc
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Oregon
Posts: 
965
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I used to shoot a 17 Rem and have loaded some Hornet for others and the advice above is great. A couple things to consider- the 17 Hornet and 22 Hornet brass tends to be pretty thin, so turning the necks can be a touchy proposition.
Also, what I found is using forming lubricant can be tricky. Even a little bit extra on the case and especially the shoulders and you will deform the cases- even more than standard brass because of the small size and thin walls. If you're using a lube pad, barely lubricate it before use and wipe off excess if necessary before forming.
Seating bullets is a whole different story. With my big hands and fat fingers, this was the hardest part of the process and I think would lead to rounds that weren't as concentric as I would like since it was difficult to see if I started the bullet in the case straight. Small rounds demand attention to small details....


Bob
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:37 PM
rc.

Join Date: 
Feb 2003
Location: 
ca
Posts: 
3,216
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I've been reloading about 25 years on and off. I suggest you go with all RCBS. I've used other equipment and Redding is also very good. Lyman has rough threads, Lee has cheap dies that don't work all that great and Hornady is hit and miss. I don't like the dies with the sliding seating stem. Just too fiddly for me. Shell holders are mostly interchangeable but sometimes they don't work with certain things like hand priming tools if from the wrong manufacture.

I would buy the RCBS press and then you might want an automatic powder measure for most accurate measurement of those small charges but the manual uniflow measure is good down to about 2 or 3 grains of fine powder. I had a lee measure and it leaked all the time and bound up a lot too. It was cheap. Used equipment can save you a lot of money so look at your local adds. O style presses are best but C style prices are OK too if all steel. I had an old C style pacific for awhile I sold. It was a real good one but I have all green on my bench now Avoid aluminum presses. They wear out and get sloppy. Turret presses are OK but there is some wiggle in the head. You will need a special funnel for 17 caliber and a loading block of some sort to pour the powder charges into the case. Boat tail bullets should sit on the case when you run them into the press without any problems except from FAT FINGERS. I'm sure the 223 is easy compared with the 17 hornet.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:24 PM
B23 is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Location: 
PNW
Posts: 
1,326
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobeardsley View Post
“Whatever die/s you end up getting for the 17 Hornady Hornet, I suggest you make sure it is a bushing die so you can control, as well as keep consistent, neck tension. Also, keep your brass segregated by Lot # because there is quite a bit of variance in the neck thickness of the 17 HH brass.”

B23,
Do you ever turn the brass to get more uniform neck sizing? I can see how varying neck tension can be a problem for consistency. Or is the brass too thin already to shave more off?
If you turned all of the necks down to whatever the thinnest neck is it would save you from keeping your brass in different groups based on neck thickness, but I find neck turning about as much fun as having my fingernails pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers. Not because neck turning is all that difficult, but I just hate doing it so I just keep all my brass segregated by neck thickness and swap bushings.

Technically speaking, turning all the necks to have the same thickness would likely be the most accurate approach though.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:56 PM
Dobeardsley
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2017
Location: 
Klamath Falls, OR
Posts: 
77
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I purchased an RCBS kit, and Redding 3 die set, but also a Vickerman seating die because of the small bullet big finger issue. Also ordered an RCBS case trimmer and a Redding cutter for 17 cal to replace the standard cutter. So far I’m learning the 17 is a sort of non standard caliber and getting stuff designed to work on “popular” calibers doesn’t always work well enough on the 17 to suit me. Still learning. Also ordered is a slightly more accurate scale (weighs to 0.05 grain instead of 0.1) that wasn’t terribly expensive ($70), and a metal funnel for 17 cal, we’ll see how that goes.

I will measure and sort the brass I’ve accumulated as suggested and see what happens there. I do have a question about experimenting with different primers than shown in the data. It appears from load data pressures listed that Winchester WSR’s seems to show the highest pressures, so they must be the “hottest”?? The Hornady data doesn’t list actual pressures, but their loads get way bigger,faster than Lyman or Accurate Powder data, and use WSR primers. The normal suggested method to assess pressure effects before it causes problems is to measure the case head before and after firing with blade calipers, so that would be my plan. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:38 PM
BobSc
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Oregon
Posts: 
965
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
First off, I'll be curious to see how your metal .17 funnel works out. Seems like any metal funnel would cause even more static electricity than the plastic ones, but it will be interesting to see if this is true. If it is true, RCBS makes a nice .17 funnel that works great on these small cases.

Measuring brass with a micrometer to determine pressures is a highly dangerous method. By time you get any meaningful results you will be far beyond yield pressures of your brass and possibly your action/bolt lugs. Best to start low as usual and look for pressure signs like cratered firing pin strikes in the primer, stiff bolt lift, and generally not exceeding pressures listed in your reloading books. Even these aren't great indicators but a good amount of common sense goes a long way to keeping you safe. My experience with almost all cartridges I shoot is that I find a "sweet spot" somewhere before I get to max pressures and I work around that. Once I find that sweet spot I adjust powder charges by tenths and once that doesn't seem to make any difference I adjust bullet seating depth. In most of my rifles, about .005-.010" from touching the lands is about right but you may have to experiment a bit to find what your rifle likes....

If you're really anal like me and a few guys I know, you can deburr the flash holes with the proper tool, chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth, clean the case mouth with a stiff case brush to get consistent bullet grip, etc..... the deburring only has to be done once on all cases BTW.

One of the best tools I ever bought was the RCBS case prep station with all the stations for these monotonous chores. Saves me time and energy so I can move along to more important anal exercises in reloading....

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:05 PM
PigButtons
US Air Force Fire Fighter NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2010
Location: 
N. Central Alabama
Posts: 
1,138
TPC Rating: 
100% (14)
I don't know what kind of scale you use but I had to get a beam scale for the small powder charges that the Hornets use. Digital is great for larger stuff where a little float in the tare is acceptable, but for tiny stuff a good beam scale is a must IMO.

Primers are very touchy down in this size as well. Higher pressure doesn't always mean hotter, it's never that simple. Anyway, I use Remington 6 1/2 primers because they are specifically for smaller rifle rounds and pistol rounds. When they are not available I use CCI small pistol primers and they are almost as consistent. When you have a case this small and so little powder the primer is a much larger part of the overall picture, again IMO. Also the 6 1/2 cups are thinner so you can see overpressure easier as the cup will crater or flatten easier giving an earlier indication that you are getting near the top pressure.

Last edited by PigButtons; 10-03-2019 at 11:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:55 AM
Squeezer
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Oct 2012
Location: 
Colorado's Western Slope
Posts: 
854
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSc View Post
One of the best tools I ever bought was the RCBS case prep station with all the stations for these monotonous chores. Saves me time and energy so I can move along to more important anal exercises in reloading....

Bob
I presume you include such anal diversions as weight-sorting all your bullets and cases. I know I do...
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:38 AM
BobSc
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Oregon
Posts: 
965
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeezer View Post
I presume you include such anal diversions as weight-sorting all your bullets and cases. I know I do...
Actually, I used to sort my cases by weight but I found in time that it really didn't make any difference- instead I sort by manufacturer and it seems to work out fine. If I get really anal about a particular cartridge I will buy aftermarket brass that meets much tighter specs- such as Peterson, Alpha, or Lapua.....

I've checked weights on the bullets I use a few times and found them so close it wasn't worth the effort to check them any more. There is a point where time is also valuable and I do have other hobbies that demand my attention....

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:50 PM
B23 is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Location: 
PNW
Posts: 
1,326
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Weight sorting brass is of no great value because there is no direct correlation between case volume and the actual weight of brass. Case volume is what really matters so if you truly want to be anal about sorting brass you'll measure the internal volume of every single piece of brass you have. It's a VERY time consuming process so nearly no one does it, at least in large quantities they don't.

Most bullets, by weight, are pretty consistent these days so not a lot of benefit there, but if you presort your bullets by measuring base to ogive length it can save you some time at the reloading bench and you'll end up with more consistent OAL on your ammo. Remember, base to bullet tip measurements have little affect, it's consistent base to bullet ogive length that matters.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Browning .22 caliber Pistol Historical Timeline tuckerd1 Buck Mark / Buck Mark Rifle / Challenger I, II & III / Medalist / International Medalist and No 45 04-22-2019 10:35 PM
Reloading bench location dgeesaman Reloading 22 11-05-2018 03:27 PM
new sa-22 — old eyes — suggestions on a red-dot or small forward mounted scope? VonFatman Browning 9 04-06-2018 11:17 AM
Small Lightweight Youth Pistol? DrGunner Rimfire Handguns 54 08-01-2017 06:58 PM
Dakota Model 10 .218 Bee: Rebarreling, Reloading, And Getting Closer To A Reality TEDDY BEAR RAT Rifle 5 11-30-2016 06:09 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x