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  #46  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:24 PM
jpickar

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The pics of your bore show a very good bore. The bore scope just shows all the little stuff. It may look bad but that is a great bore.
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  #47  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
The pics of your bore show a very good bore. The bore scope just shows all the little stuff. It may look bad but that is a great bore.
Not a metal working expert by any means nor do I consider myself to be an expert on rifle bores. But to my admittedly untrained eyes, that looked pretty rough to me. If you don't mind sharing with me, what are you seeing that leads you to assess it as a great bore?

I was mostly going by the appearance of the bores in some of my other guns.....like this Anschtuz 1710 DKL.


in the for what it's worth department, I do notice that for the Winchester to settle into it best accuracy after a deep bore cleaning, it generally requires about 20 - 30 rounds down the barrel.
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  #48  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:06 PM
chicks2111

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Hey Pump

I started this thread. To begin with, comparing the apparent damage to your bore, and the damage to that 52D would approximate comparing a bar room brawl to WWII. Trying to be funny here, but really there is no comparison. The gouges were deep.
I agree....the proof is in performance. The subject 52D was only shot by myself and a friend indoors at 50 feet because of inclement winter weather here. The average group was around 1/4" ctc…...50 feet. (24x Weaver, good lighting, still air)
Owner said he hit golf balls at 100 yards in the wind. I'll let you be the judge of that.
Nuff said?
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  #49  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chicks2111 View Post
I started this thread. To begin with, comparing the apparent damage to your bore, and the damage to that 52D would approximate comparing a bar room brawl to WWII. Trying to be funny here, but really there is no comparison. The gouges were deep.
I agree....the proof is in performance. The subject 52D was only shot by myself and a friend indoors at 50 feet because of inclement winter weather here. The average group was around 1/4" ctc…...50 feet. (24x Weaver, good lighting, still air)
Owner said he hit golf balls at 100 yards in the wind. I'll let you be the judge of that.
Nuff said?
My intent was not to say that the bore in my gun was comparable to the bore in your gun. Without having my hands on both guns to closely examine, I would have a hard time doing that. My intent was to show that even with (what I considered to be) a fairly rough appearing bore, one can get very good accuracy. Only shooting will tell, the proof is in the pudding, etc.

That was all that was intended. The taking of the pics of my bore had nothing to do with your pics, but since I had taken them, I thought some folks might find the relationship between bore condition and accuracy useful....maybe I was wrong?

Just trying to contribute something useful and helpful. But I understand that contributions are not always appreciated, so I'll bow out now.

Last edited by pump .22s; 02-10-2020 at 05:47 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:41 PM
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I have a borescope, no idea where it is now. My judge is how it shoots, if it does what I want I don't care what it looks like. Crazy stuff this rimfire accuracy Chase is with what works and what doesn't. Your bore might appear rough but those targets show it likes to impress you and appears to be happy.

Topstrap
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  #51  
Old 02-10-2020, 06:57 PM
chicks2111

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Hey Pump

It's all good till the wife complains. Thanks to all and especially to RFC.
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  #52  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:39 PM
jpickar

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Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
Not a metal working expert by any means nor do I consider myself to be an expert on rifle bores. But to my admittedly untrained eyes, that looked pretty rough to me. If you don't mind sharing with me, what are you seeing that leads you to assess it as a great bore?

I was mostly going by the appearance of the bores in some of my other guns.....like this Anschtuz 1710 DKL.


in the for what it's worth department, I do notice that for the Winchester to settle into it best accuracy after a deep bore cleaning, it generally requires about 20 - 30 rounds down the barrel.
Your anschtuz is a different vintage and made differently. I don't know for sure but you anschtuz is probably lapped before it left the factory. Your 52 wasn't. All older guns have bores that look like that. Very few left the factory without reamer marks. That is normal even for modern made barrels. That aren't custom or high dollar barrel. I have a Rem. 700 ion 280 Rem. It shoots all the holes touching at 100 yards, if there is no wind. You look in the bore with a bore scope and you would think the barrel is shot and can't shoot. It is a hammer forged barrel. And they look better than a button rifled barrel. If it looks good without a bore scope, to the trained eye, it is probably OK.

The 20 to 30 shots to season the bore or before it settles down is normal. It is my opinion that it takes X amount of shots for the lube or lead to fill all the little reamer marks then it shoots good. I have a 40X that three shots and it is good to go. Each gun is different. Before I would rebarrel your gun I would hand lap it or if you aren't sure have someone lap the bore and then shoot it. It will take less shots to season the bore and will shoot better more than likely.
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  #53  
Old 02-10-2020, 08:49 PM
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Thank you for your response. I guess I need to go back and look at the bores in my 52D and 52B to see if they look much different from my E. I am not really concerned about the appearance of the bore as long as it shoots well.

I'm thinking the Anschutz may be lapped prior to leaving the factory, but will not swear to it. I will say that the Anschutz typically requires only a few shots to begin shooting it's best. But as you say, every gun is different.
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  #54  
Old 02-10-2020, 09:39 PM
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Just a point of clarification, All 52 barrels were lead lapped as well as lead-slugged to test for tight/loose spots. With the exception of the late 52E's, all the barrels were cut rifled and required lapping to smooth bores and size correctly. I have the original process sheets for 52 barrels and there was quite an effort made to give the customer the most accurate barrel possible on a production basis. Granted, they did not get the attention given to custom barrels by today's standard, and but they were size very accurately non the less.
Steve
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  #55  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Litetrigger View Post
Maybe they were in the box of 12?
I was setting up a Martini Mkiii and drug the 52 along to see if the barrel was going to be spun off that evening. It wasn't the day's focus.

I shot 50(+/-) rounds of fiocchi subsonic hollowpoints on a gusty day at the Friendship IN range (windy valley year round, if you've been there you know what I'm on about)
Set up ten balls, had to reset the bunch twice so that's 20-30 hits out of 50+ shots (I shot a box of 50+ some loose SK Riflematch in my car from a spill...call it 15 rounds) that puts us at 20-30/65 or <50% possibly as low as 30%

Impressive accuracy @ 100yrds....but infrequent. I think we can safely call that "sporadic"
I give the gun the benefit of the doubt and call(ed) it "inconclusive"




Quote:
Originally Posted by chicks2111 View Post
I started this thread. To begin with, comparing the apparent damage to your bore, and the damage to that 52D would approximate comparing a bar room brawl to WWII. Trying to be funny here, but really there is no comparison. The gouges were deep.
I agree....the proof is in performance. The subject 52D was only shot by myself and a friend indoors at 50 feet because of inclement winter weather here. The average group was around 1/4" ctc…...50 feet. (24x Weaver, good lighting, still air)
Owner said he hit golf balls at 100 yards in the wind. I'll let you be the judge of that.
Nuff said?
The bore is bad. I posted the gun for sale here with a 40x for an older friend who was tired of lugging target rifles to gun shows. The 40x sale went fine, Chicks2111 bought the 52 and was dissatisfied, I was skeptical until I saw the bore pictures. I took his word it was a lemon bought the rifle from him to make him whole.

I didn't have the heart to tell and old man what he had was junk* or to stick Chicks2111 with it...didn't see m right either way.

*it does LOOK like junk, see my picture from muzzle in earlier post

So I took the hit and now I'm "proud" owner of this white elephant.

My initial impression (50ish rounds) is it shoots OK, but its no prone gun.

At first glance The marks look like a a cleaning rod was pounded through or a stuck bullet drilled out. But the rings are every .06-.07" with mechanized regularity. No hand drill or hammer is that consistent. They could be reamer marks, but they'd be the worst any of us have ever seen.

The carbon ring article was informative thank you.

I'd love to get time to shoot some paper and put this thing to bed.
Believe me! No-one is more eager to know than me!!!!
But a busy work schedule and a myriad of winter projects that need finishing have taken precedent over this, I'll be traveling for work until the 22nd and HOPEFULLY I can print some groups on paper and KNOW DEFINITIVELY if she acts as ugly as she looks.
IF it does shoot, it was a pretty good buy,
and I'll never look at a bore again. Because IF a barrel this bad looking shoots well, that whole line of assessment goes out the window.

If it doesn't shoot.......17hmr...new barrel, new thread on the forum, new challenges, new opinions.

I don't have a paper group, nor has Chick2111 provided pictures of his groups.

So until we/I have data...cold hard physical data...I just cant say.
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  #56  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:17 AM
W8LON

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You have to be on your wind game to shoot the Friendship range for sure. The 200 yard Gorning match is a real lesson in ones doping abilities. Wind tends to reverse every twenty minutes and stay half a relay. Shoot all winds and dial a prayer are in order there.
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  #57  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:57 PM
chicks2111

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Yes, I think LeShaghal is right. The rifle hasn't been shot at a 50 yard or 100 target in reasonable conditions. Nobody calls 50 foot indoor groups a reasonable test of accuracy. Heck, I would bet a lot of RFC shooters have never had the opportunity, or seen the need for, that kind of a test. Who knows, maybe that rifle shoots better in the wide open spaces. Lets see how LeShaghal does when conditions allow a serious paper target test.
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