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  #16  
Old 07-30-2020, 10:07 AM
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A couple points not mentioned yet...

Not all HV ammo will go supersonic in shorter barrels like most pistols have. But like Jaia mentioned, subsonic HV performance will usually be less consistent due to less consistent powder charges (rather than transonic influences).

The real value of HV ammo is its retained energy when hunting at longer distances. It may be a bit less accurate, but will smack a critter with more energy when the bullet does hit home.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2020, 12:59 PM
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HV vs SV speed of sound break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
The real value of HV ammo is its retained energy when hunting at longer distances. It may be a bit less accurate, but will smack a critter with more energy when the bullet does hit home.
Iím not sure this entirely true. Iím pretty sure I read somewhere ďprobably hereĒ at a certain distance sv will still be going as fast or faster than the HV because HV starts out slowing down faster.
Which is relative to retained energy but the difference is not much change in regular hunting distance to make a difference.

When I get home ďif I remember ď Iíll look up this data.


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Last edited by PEASHOOTER67; 07-31-2020 at 11:21 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2020, 02:16 PM
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The reason that subsonic velocity ammo is preferable for target-competition use is the lesser wind drift. At .22 long rifle speeds, first being supersonic then falling into the transonic speed zone causes considerably greater wind drift, and that is something that is difficult to anticipate and compensate for. Transonic turbulence may cause some instability, but at the speeds that the .22 LR is capable of and the ballistic coefficient of the bullets, I doubt that it's a huge factor. The major hurdle to accuracy from high velocity .22LR is lack of precision in cartridge manufacturing. Ultra precision is only taken with the best and therefore most expensive rounds.
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:45 PM
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You'd have to ask the armadillos and I think they're all dead.

1150-1180 seems to work though
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEASHOOTER67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer
The real value of HV ammo is its retained energy when hunting at longer distances. It may be a bit less accurate, but will smack a critter with more energy when the bullet does hit home.
Iím not sure this entirely true. Iím pretty sure I read somewhere ďprobably hereĒ at a certain distance sv will still be going as fast or faster than the HV because HV starts out slowing down faster.

When I get home ďif I remember ď Iíll look up this data.
Looking at CCI published data for 40 gr. CPRN Mini Mags (1235 fps MV) and 40 gr. LRN SV (1070 fps MV) shows at 100 yards:

1) The MM has slowed to 998 fps and SV has slowed to 908 fps.
2) The MM has 20% more energy at 88 ft-lbs. vs. SV at 73 ft-lbs.

So the MM does slow down more by losing 237 ft/s vs. SV only losing 162 ft/s.
(BUT the MM is still going faster at 50 yards than SV is going at the muzzle.)

The only caveat I see in this comparison is that the MM bullet has a slightly better BC, which I have to assume is due to the copper plating vs. plain lead.
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  #21  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil in Alabama View Post
The reason that subsonic velocity ammo is preferable for target-competition use is the lesser wind drift. At .22 long rifle speeds, first being supersonic then falling into the transonic speed zone causes considerably greater wind drift, and that is something that is difficult to anticipate and compensate for. Transonic turbulence may cause some instability, but at the speeds that the .22 LR is capable of and the ballistic coefficient of the bullets, I doubt that it's a huge factor. The major hurdle to accuracy from high velocity .22LR is lack of precision in cartridge manufacturing. Ultra precision is only taken with the best and therefore most expensive rounds.
This ^
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:10 AM
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Rifle or pistol? HV ammo in a 4-5.5" barrel won't hit Mach 1. I use CCI Blazer all the time in my Ruger Mark pistols. Works quite well too.
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:22 AM
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Watch this & be suprised https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DzLQGv-w5M
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:08 AM
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HV vs SV speed of sound break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Looking at CCI published data for 40 gr. CPRN Mini Mags (1235 fps MV) and 40 gr. LRN SV (1070 fps MV) shows at 100 yards:

1) The MM has slowed to 998 fps and SV has slowed to 908 fps.
2) The MM has 20% more energy at 88 ft-lbs. vs. SV at 73 ft-lbs.

So the MM does slow down more by losing 237 ft/s vs. SV only losing 162 ft/s.
(BUT the MM is still going faster at 50 yards than SV is going at the muzzle.)

The only caveat I see in this comparison is that the MM bullet has a slightly better BC, which I have to assume is due to the copper plating vs. plain lead.

Sub sonic does lose speed slower than high velocity comparing 40 grain to 40 grain but not at usable distances that matter.

Cci velocitor at muzzle 1435fps at 200yard 921fps
Remington target at mv 1150 at 200 yard 872 FPS

MV Spread of 285fps at 200 yd spread of 49 FPS.

If that data went out to 300 yards you would see that the hv round would be going slower. Thatís just comparing same weight. There is also a slight difference in ballistic coefficient which may or may not explain the closing gap in speed.

The high velocity has an advertised bc of .126
and the sub sonic a bc of .149. If I understand the bc advantage leans to the hv round being .126.

In useable hunting ranges the hv round slowing down faster versus the sub sonic round is meaningless and are still reasonably spread apart near the same as at the muzzle but out to 300 yards youíll find retained velocity repeatedly will be greater in the rounds that start out subsonic.

We both can show consistently the same thing using different ammo and the data still shows the same that the HV round if given enough distance will slow down more the a sv will.

In my example the hv round had the better ballistic coefficient than the sv round did.



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Last edited by PEASHOOTER67; 07-31-2020 at 11:13 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:21 PM
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22lr is a pretty amazing bullet in my book. If you watch the you tube both 25 & 300 yard using minimags had the same penetration in a gel block, just a tad more expansion at 25 yards than at 300 yards. We shoot 300 yards hitting golf balls & 1.5" high steel eggs & it will even flip duelling trees with 3.5" paddle using SV Aguilla & CCI SV. I'm pushing back to 400 yards next & trying Aguila Intercepters because at 100 yards with these it's the same velocity as the SV at the muzzle. They seem to stay pretty stable when the go subsonic. I shoot ELR with 338 Lapua & got hooked on 22lr here as it's so easy, cheap & fun to have a range on the farm outside the door.
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  #26  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:58 AM
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Other than .22LR bullets, which according to some of the above information seem immune from the effects of the transonic zone, what other bullets or projectiles behave similarly?
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:31 AM
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Any short stubby round nose projectile, PG.
Avoids the instability of the long slender tailheavy bthp.
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2020, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsquirrel View Post
22lr is a pretty amazing bullet in my book. If you watch the you tube both 25 & 300 yard using minimags had the same penetration in a gel block, just a tad more expansion at 25 yards than at 300 yards. We shoot 300 yards hitting golf balls & 1.5" high steel eggs & it will even flip duelling trees with 3.5" paddle using SV Aguilla & CCI SV. I'm pushing back to 400 yards next & trying Aguila Intercepters because at 100 yards with these it's the same velocity as the SV at the muzzle. They seem to stay pretty stable when the go subsonic. I shoot ELR with 338 Lapua & got hooked on 22lr here as it's so easy, cheap & fun to have a range on the farm outside the door.
Just a tad more? Are you making a joke?
He measured an average .221 diameter @ 300yds which is zero expansion. He measured an average .372 @ 25yds which is the expansion "drag" that caused the bullet to (put the brakes on) thereby giving the virtually equal penetrations at both yardages.

Outside the door 22lr range.
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