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  #16  
Old 01-14-2003, 12:24 AM
Irishfly

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You guys are getting ahead of me. I haven't even found a suitable scale yet I have to take time out from my research to kill some deer next week. Interesting info though. I will spend a few days digesting it all. As I figured it seems like the biggest gain in performance would come from the cheaper ammo.

D.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2003, 04:29 PM
Cornbread2

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Sorting good match ammo useally is a waste of time.

It only really helps with cheap ammo.

During the spring we practice almost daily. We shoot the three position before work almost every morning and shoot most all day on Saturday getting ready for competition.

We have been doing this for a while now.

I started sorting cheap ammo because we were shooting so much the match ammo was getting so expensive that I could not afford it.

We discovered that Federal Lightning was accurate in one of our rifles and CCI Blazer was accurate in the other.

By sorting the ammo we got rid of the flyers caused by incorrect powder charges.

CCI Blazer sorted by weight and rim thickness will hold the X ring if I do my part in my rifle.

Since I discovered Wolf ammo I use it when I can find it. You don't have to do anything to it but shoot it. It is some very good ammo.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2003, 08:14 PM
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Hi Clayshooter......

Phil, I learned a long long time ago that I wasn't big enough or tough enough to handle Blue Dot loads - especially 1 1/2 oz Blue dot loads! All I load now in 12 ga. are light 1 oz 7 1/2's. They will break them as far as I can hit them.

Good to hear from you, Clayshooter. Yeah, I've been at it a while too. Shot quite a bit of registered Trap back in the 70's, have been shooting a little NSCA Sporting for the past few years & have dabbled at Skeet for 25 years or so also. Also shot quite a bit of Rifle, Pistol & Airgun (both pistol & rifle) Silhouette a few years back. Don't have any place convenient to shoot any silhouette now.

I have tried culling by measuring rim thickness on Wolf MT, Wolf ME, SK SSHP & Federal Lightnings. I found enough variation to separate them into groups (.001"-.002") but could detect no difference in performance in different groups or mixed groups - so I quit. I never gave much thought to weight-sorting until this thread - but I might now if I can find a suitable scale.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2003, 10:52 PM
Cornbread2

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I use a cheaper Hornady digital scale. I looked at several more expensive scales but no matter if you paid $80 or $300 they all are accurate within one tenth grain.

I seen no reason to buy an expensive scale.

If I remember my Hornady cost me less than $100.

Sorting ammo also gives you something to do on these cold winter nights. If you get tired of it con your wife into doing it for you.

Tell her it is much to complicated for a woman to do correctly.

That works well for a while.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2003, 08:02 PM
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tried it today

I took some of the remington target #6122 BAB ammo that I had weight sorted to the range today. Even with wind gusts up to 25 mph. I picked up 12 points over Ely EPS and27 points over some of the same lot ammo unsorted
Paul
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2003, 08:55 PM
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Wow

thanks Knight

I shot indoors the other day to set up kind of a baseline or control group of groups.

D.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2003, 02:47 AM
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After shooting part of a bulk pack of Remington’s I decided to weigh the balance (about 250 rounds) of the box to see how bad they were weight wise. Shooting these things reminded me of Rice Crispies. Even had one case split full length.

The only scale I have is for powder, so the measurements were in 0.1 grains. The spread was 2.3 grains with one large bell and one smaller bell with an 0.8 grain separation. Of the 2.3 grain spread, I had rounds in 18 of the 23. It's no wonder you can play music with this ammo. No more Remington bulk ammo for me.

I also weighed 100 rounds of the Federal bulk. The spread was only 0.4 grains with a very even bell curve.

Both brands were purchased recently at Wal-Mart. Interesting to note that of the bulk Rem., Dyna, and Fed., Federal is the only one with the lot number on the out side of the box.

It was either weigh ammo or start on the tax forms. May be I'll weigh some Dynapoints...
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2003, 03:37 AM
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Tax

I think I'll finish my tax forms so I can buy more ammo to weigh

Just kidding. Thanks for the research Sav. How did the Feds group after you sorted them? I am accumulating some ammo here at the house. When my promotion exam is overwith on the 11th I am going to go through it all with the scale and then to the range I'll go. I will post the results here. By the way, Federal Lightnings also shoot the best in my lead slinging stick.

Thanks,
D.
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2003, 10:09 AM
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sav99age

As you have seen if you try to sort Remington into groups of exact weight you would have 40 different lots in each brick.

Also take very light round and pull the bullet. Weigh that powder charge if it even has one. I have seen a lot of Remington and Winchester X-Pert rounds with no powder charge at all. Only the priming pushes the bullet out of the barrel.

Compare the weight of the powder charge of a light round with that of a heavy round.

I can't belive that some shooters really and truely belive this is good ammo.
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  #25  
Old 01-28-2003, 12:05 PM
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Popped some tops...

From my bulk Remington sort, I removed the bullets from the lightest, lightest +0.6 grains, heaviest and heaviest -0.5 grains (this was from a total 2.3 grain spread). What I found was that the variance was all in the bullet. The priming and powder were all the same. This is a very small sample but it tells me that weight sorting might not sort the under-primed and under-charged from the bulk. Of the 200 plus rounds I fired earlier from the box, I didn't have duds but did have a big variance in sound and poor grouping.

It is probable that there are boxes that have low variances and shoot very well. But with 3 changing variable, powder, priming and bullets, I would think the likelihood would be low. I'm sure that Remington knows what it is producing and they are selling to a price range. I would think that the easiest money to remove from the cost would be quality control ... Less labor and a fewer rejects.

It's kind of a guessing game. If you disassemble the round you can't fire it to test what you found and if you fire it you can't determine what the components were. For me, I'm just going to stick with rounds with less variance. May be if enough people stop buying the product they will get the idea. I doubt that that will be any time soon.

Will have to wait for better weather to test the results.

Just my comments and very crude sampling.
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  #26  
Old 01-28-2003, 03:44 PM
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My expereience with Federal Lightning, Fed 711 and CCI Blazer has been the exact opposite.

It always was the powder charge that varied so much.

Also people will still buy every round Remington makes because most don't know any better.

Just like all the people that buy Henry lever and pump guns and think they are quality.
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  #27  
Old 01-28-2003, 09:18 PM
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REMINGTON?????????????

IMHO it is gonna take a hell of a lot more than a good set of scales & a rim-thickness gauge to make ANY Remington ammo shootable!
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  #28  
Old 01-28-2003, 11:19 PM
Kent Owens
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Remington does make a pretty good electric razor.....I like mine....they haven't quite mastered .22 ammo yet. The gave up on .22 rifles too it seems--
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2003, 03:22 PM
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No, Kent, it isn't that they haven't mastered it yet - it's more like they forgot everything they knew. Ammo Alzheimers maybe? 15 years or so ago Remington Target was as good a "cheap" std velocity as you could buy & the "golden bullets" were very good HV stuff. Now none of it is worth fooling with at all. Evidently their mfg processes changed drastically over the years.
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  #30  
Old 01-29-2003, 09:31 PM
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The Remington/Eley Match ammo is really good--and the Premier .22 Mag. with the V-max bullet is incredible--most people who've tried it will agree. So, that said, I'm sure they are capable of producing a very good product if they wanted to. Maybe we should all write them an email?
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