pre-1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" dating - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #1  
Old 11-19-2019, 04:56 PM
robinpeck

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pre-1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" dating



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re: pre-1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" w DST. Serial Number 197417
(With only caliber and proof mark on barrel, pre-white line buttplate spacer, advertised in USA as "Junior Varminter Carbine" and "Model 1418 Carbine"...see photo of advert.)

Is there any way to get an estimate of just how "pre-1958" a rifle actually is...?

What year did production of these rifles begin?

I see some people dating them 1950-1958. Is this correct?

Any way known to get a more precise date?

Photos of circa 1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" w DST. Serial Number 197417
Two piece stock. The smaller forend piece is attached to the barrel by two machine screws into two barrel bands (one screw is also the front sling swivel, the other band is in a recess just in front of the front sight ramp). Forend schnabel appears to be made from horn as does the spacer between the two stock pieces. The spacer is attached to the forend wood piece by three screws. Stock pieces are numbered to each other ("7") and appear to be cut from the same piece of wood. The grain matches very exactly. Bolt handle is blued. The bore is in excellent condition.















Last edited by robinpeck; 11-30-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:20 PM
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A 1418 model is likely not any older than 1958, if indeed it is that old. The 64 action is not as old as the 54, coming out, I believe, some time in the later 1950s.

The serial number may give some idea of a more exact date of manufacture.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:38 PM
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There's a thread currently on page two titled "A Vintage Anschutz Coming Home" that you may find interesting. No real answers but it ties in nicely.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:28 PM
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I tried a while ago to get an answer to this question here on RFC.

I got some responses but no serious traction.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=880330

FWIW, my 'pre-1958' "Junior Varminter" full-stock w/ DST serial is 01275xx.

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  #5  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:14 AM
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What is the basis for believing that a Junior Varminter might be pre-1958?

Photos may help identify more about the rifle in question.

In the meantime, some older ads may shed further light.

The Junior Varminter may be a name for one or more models of early Anschutz 64 action rifles advertised in the American market.

Below is an ad, from 1962 or 1963 (as claimed in the source for the ad), showing several models under the "Junior Varminter" banner.



Below is a parts list, apparently from the same time, for "Junior Varminter 22 Caliber Rifles and Carbine". It includes several different models.


Last edited by Penage Guy; 11-20-2019 at 09:16 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:27 AM
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Call Anschutz, for 100 euros they told me they'd look it up. I declined Shoots great, mushy trigger.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:28 AM
Area51guy
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Anschutz dating.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
What is the basis for believing that a Junior Varminter might be pre-1958?

Photos may help identify more about the rifle in question.

In the meantime, some older ads may shed further light.

The Junior Varminter may be a name for one or more models of early Anschutz 64 action rifles advertised in the American market.

Below is an ad, from 1962 or 1963 (as claimed in the source for the ad), showing several models under the "Junior Varminter" banner.



Below is a parts list, apparently from the same time, for "Junior Varminter 22 Caliber Rifles and Carbine". It includes several different models.

It is my understanding that after about 1958 the rifles had at least two proof stamps instead of one and a date code was added. A bit later, the date code was changed to a two digit year marking. Also, after WWII, Anschutz did not make guns until about 1950 after moving the plant to Ulm, Germany. A bit of a guess, but I'm thinking that it probably took 2-3 years before being imported to the U.S. I have a Junior Varminteer standard rifle with serial number 2530xx with the pre 1959 markings. There are no importer markings so it was either bought in Germany and shipped back or came in pre 1968. It is probably one of the last before the markings were changed. It is the most accurate .22 rifle that I own! A picture of my gun:
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Last edited by Area51guy; 11-20-2019 at 09:34 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Area51guy View Post
It is my understanding that after about 1958 the rifles had at least two proof stamps instead of one and a date code was added. A bit later, the date code was changed to a two digit year marking. Also, after WWII, Anschutz did not make guns until about 1950 after moving the plant to Ulm, Germany. A bit of a guess, but I'm thinking that it probably took 2-3 years before being imported to the U.S. I have a Junior Varminteer standard rifle with serial number 2530xx with the pre 1959 markings. There are no importer markings so it was either bought in Germany and shipped back or came in pre 1968. It is probably one of the last before the markings were changed. It is the most accurate .22 rifle that I own! A picture of my gun:
In the absence of date stamps, the serial numbers, if consecutive with the 64 action rifles, might be the nearest way to provide a means for dating such an Anschutz. It is unclear whether a date stamp existed in the pre-1960 period; there weren't any on 54 action Anschutz rifles from that time. Early 54 action rifles from the mid-50s appear to have had a month and year (maximum of four digits) stamped on the rifle, perhaps on the barrel, near the receiver. It is unlikely that Anschutz produced any powderburning rifles, almost certainly none for export, in the 1950 - 1954(1955?) period, a time during which German arms production was very restricted, if not prohibited.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:18 AM
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The earliest proof with a date that I have recorded and verified was 2.55 on an Anschutz 1430 Vierling, next is 05.56 on a 1430/32 in regular .22 Hornet. As Penage Guy wrote, Germany did not produce firearms with rifled barrels until about 1952 to 1953 and you can bet, that domestic demand was filled before any attempt at export marketing was made.

Without some detailed photos, any guess is a real shot in the dark.
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Old 11-20-2019, 06:45 PM
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XTaRMA.jpg[/img]M7.jpg[/img][/img] One more, serial number 173XXX. Having tried to read thru some of the earlier post the serial numbers look like, 01275XX, 173XXX, 197XXX, 210XXX,253XXX and254XXX. The first number is seven digits and the only one beginning with a 0. That's a pretty fair number spacing for a relatively short time. The early serial numbers are not suppose to mean much and this may show that.
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 59801 View Post
... One more, serial number 173XXX. Having tried to read thru some of the earlier post the serial numbers look like, 01275XX, 173XXX, 197XXX, 210XXX,253XXX and254XXX. The first number is seven digits and the only one beginning with a 0. That's a pretty fair number spacing for a relatively short time. The early serial numbers are not suppose to mean much and this may show that.
A zero in front of a serial number on German firearms has no value, so the spread isn't very big. 64 sporters were sold in Germany by the ten thousands prior to 1972.
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Old 11-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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[QUOTE=robinpeck;11678063]Photos of pre-1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" w DST. Serial Number 197417

It is a great looking rifle. Why do you believe it must be "pre-1958"?
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2019, 05:07 PM
Andyd
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[QUOTE=Penage Guy;11678093]
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinpeck View Post
Photos of pre-1958 Anschutz .22LR "Mannlicher" w DST. Serial Number 197417

It is a great looking rifle. Why do you believe it must be "pre-1958"?
That's what I would like to know, also. I dabble in Anschutz sporters and researched them for decades and would not dare to make that statement.
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:06 PM
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A very handsome rifle. Is there any significance to the proof marks location on these rifles? Some appear in line with the manufacturing address and caliber marking and some appear above these.
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:15 PM
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[QUOTE=Andyd;11678167]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post

That's what I would like to know, also. I dabble in Anschutz sporters and researched them for decades and would not dare to make that statement.
earliest 64 rifles w/date code in my records:
model 1418 code 661 SN 3187XX
model 1516 code 61 SN 3444XX

Jeff
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