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  #1  
Old 11-21-2020, 01:52 PM
Baklash

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Only a tiny nick at outside edge



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My 4 year old BuckMark URX stainless has been flawless since the day I bought it brand new.......until recently. I have less than 2,000 rounds thru it. Was at the range last week shooting it with no problems until a sudden ftf. Ejected round and noticed just a tiny cut at very edge of rim. It looked like the pin nearly missed the rim completely. It was not rectangular at all, just a sharp notch. Repeated this 4 more times. Slide was very tight and difficult to pull back. Tried a different brand of Ammo. Same results. I have never had Ammo problems, it fires anything.
Checked firing pin assembly. All looked good, but I installed a new one anyway. Also installed new Eagle Talon extractor, spring and plunger. Slide now not as difficult to move either direction, but will not cock. Hoping for some help here. Sorry for no photos. Stupidly discarded cases at range.

Last edited by Baklash; 11-21-2020 at 02:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2020, 07:58 PM
chim
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Interesting. I'd like to see pics of a spent case. Did it look like the firing pin hit way too high or just not hard enough?

To get a picture of the firing pin hit on the case you can pull the bullet, dump the powder and chamber the case. Press the muzzle against a rag and squeeze off. No noise. The appearance won't be exactly the same as a fired round, but it may provide a clue to someone.

Removing the slide wouldn't normally do anything to make the pistol fail to cock. Did you have anything else removed?

Some years ago one of my son's Buck Marks did some fail-to-fires and acted strangely. We did a complete disassembly and discovered a small metal shaving in the maispring plunger hole that was binding it up. It hasn't malfed since.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2020, 06:44 PM
Baklash

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Originally Posted by chim View Post
Interesting. I'd like to see pics of a spent case. Did it look like the firing pin hit way too high or just not hard enough?

To get a picture of the firing pin hit on the case you can pull the bullet, dump the powder and chamber the case. Press the muzzle against a rag and squeeze off. No noise. The appearance won't be exactly the same as a fired round, but it may provide a clue to someone.

Removing the slide wouldn't normally do anything to make the pistol fail to cock. Did you have anything else removed?

Some years ago one of my son's Buck Marks did some fail-to-fires and acted strangely. We did a complete disassembly and discovered a small metal shaving in the maispring plunger hole that was binding it up. It hasn't malfed since.
Sorry Chim. The slide doesn’t really rack. Doesn’t cock.It does eject the empty casing though. Even the slide lock is loosey goosey and won’t push up completely in normal lock position. It’s like the slide doesn’t go back far enough for the lock tab to move up completely in front of the slide. I guess a gunsmith is next on my agenda. Thanks for your reply.
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2020, 07:43 PM
Nolan

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Originally Posted by Baklash View Post
Sorry Chim. The slide doesn’t really rack. Doesn’t cock.It does eject the empty casing though. Even the slide lock is loosey goosey and won’t push up completely in normal lock position. It’s like the slide doesn’t go back far enough for the lock tab to move up completely in front of the slide. I guess a gunsmith is next on my agenda. Thanks for your reply.
Before you take it to a gunsmith, here are a few things to check.

When you say it does eject the empty case, is this during live fire or hand cycling the action?

Slide movement is .560" for the sear to capture the hammer, 1.050" to the ejector, 1.180" to pick up a round from the magazine, 1.260" at the slide stop, 1.375" to the buffer, 1.5" against the frame post WITHOUT a buffer

If it is easy to rack the slide AFTER the first pull, it may just be the disconnector isn't sliding up and re-connecting with the sear giving a dead trigger. There are several threads here on fixing a dead trigger. Just search for disconnector.

If the slide is always hard to pull, you are getting hammer follow. The sear is not catching the hammer. The most common reason is the sear spring is out of position. The long leg of the sear spring MUST be in the center V of the sear. There is an excellent photo from Rimfire Central member RDA's on his most excellent website
http://guns.dsttr.com/Buckmark.html

I have shamelessly posted a link to the photo.

http://guns.dsttr.com/img/SearInstal...305_004923.jpg

The slide only has to move slightly more than half an inch for the hammer to be cocked enough for the sear to capture the hammer. If it is ejecting the empty case the slide is moving at least 1 inch, more than enough to cock the hammer.

Remove the slide and try to cock the hammer by hand. The hammer should move down either level with or slightly below the top of the frame. If not, remove the left (safety side) grip and look through the round frame opening to see if the the hammer strut is centered in the hammer spring plunger. Also check to see if anything is interfering with the movement of the hammer. DO NOT LET THE HAMMER SNAP FORWARD AND HIT THE FRAME! The frame is very thin where the hammer will land and it will beat up the frame.

If the sear does not capture the hammer, move the sear arm towards the rear while cocking the hammer. If the sear will not move or still does not capture the hammer, look through the round hole and look for the cause, ie. broken sear, debris, sear spring out of place, etc...

If the slide is not moving far enough to pick up a new round, something is stopping the slide. The most common reason is a bent recoil spring guide rod.

Remove the firing pin/recoil spring assembly and buffer, set the slide on the frame and while holding it down against the frame, move the slide back and forth. It should move the hammer down and slide all the way back to the rear frame post.

Re-install the sight rail and repeat the test without the firing pin/recoil spring assembly and buffer.

Re-install the firing pin/recoil spring assembly and buffer and repeat the test.

Nolan

Last edited by Nolan; 11-27-2020 at 10:44 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2020, 06:28 PM
rdas
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Nolan gave you lots of things to check. And with the slide being hard to move, Chim's suggestion to look for debris (say, from a chipped/broken buffer) is a great idea, too. And presumably, when you reassembled everything after replacing the firing pin assembly & extractor parts, you tightened down the top rail screw(s) that you removed. But you might also want to check to make sure all the top rail screws and the barrel screw are tight.

Regarding the firing pin almost missing the rim... since you said the existing firing pin looked ok, we can rule out the most obvious cause... that the tip of the firing pin broke / chipped. But what else would cause the firing pin to not line up with the top of the chamber. The top rail screws and barrel screw are the first things to check. But you can also check to make sure the vertical movement of the slide is reasonable. The slide is held between the top rail and frame. It should move up and down a little (a millimeter or two), but there should not be a lot of vertical slop.

Too much vertical slop in the slide would cause all of the issues you're describing. It could cause the misalignment of the firing pin and chamber ('cause the firing pin is in the slide, and the slide gets pushed up by the top round in the magazine). It would also cause the hammer to not re-cock (because the slide isn't pushing the hammer down far enough to be caught by the sear). And if the slide got cockeyed it could be hard to move. Anyhow, compare yours to photos of other Buckmarks.

Just another 2 cents. Keep us posted on what you find.

Dave

P.S. Nolan, feel free to link to Buckmark photos on my website anytime you want. That's why they are there. (I'm an old-school-internet guy, from back when people put information on the www to share knowledge.)
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2020, 04:01 PM
Baklash

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Originally Posted by rdas View Post
Nolan gave you lots of things to check. And with the slide being hard to move, Chim's suggestion to look for debris (say, from a chipped/broken buffer) is a great idea, too. And presumably, when you reassembled everything after replacing the firing pin assembly & extractor parts, you tightened down the top rail screw(s) that you removed. But you might also want to check to make sure all the top rail screws and the barrel screw are tight.

Regarding the firing pin almost missing the rim... since you said the existing firing pin looked ok, we can rule out the most obvious cause... that the tip of the firing pin broke / chipped. But what else would cause the firing pin to not line up with the top of the chamber. The top rail screws and barrel screw are the first things to check. But you can also check to make sure the vertical movement of the slide is reasonable. The slide is held between the top rail and frame. It should move up and down a little (a millimeter or two), but there should not be a lot of vertical slop.

Too much vertical slop in the slide would cause all of the issues you're describing. It could cause the misalignment of the firing pin and chamber ('cause the firing pin is in the slide, and the slide gets pushed up by the top round in the magazine). It would also cause the hammer to not re-cock (because the slide isn't pushing the hammer down far enough to be caught by the sear). And if the slide got cockeyed it could be hard to move. Anyhow, compare yours to photos of other Buckmarks.

Just another 2 cents. Keep us posted on what you find.

Dave

P.S. Nolan, feel free to link to Buckmark photos on my website anytime you want. That's why they are there. (I'm an old-school-internet guy, from back when people put information on the www to share knowledge.)
Many thanks to Chim, Nolan, and rdas for the excellent suggestions to try. Haven’t been able to do that yet, but will and then get back. I’m a real novice once I get into anything beyond removing the slide but I will try. Thanks again.
Mike
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2020, 06:02 PM
Baklash

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Smile

Ok, I tried to check the many things that were suggested so this will be a long post. Previously I replaced firing pin assembly and extractor even though they all looked ok.
Yes, an empty casing will eject when hand loaded and hand racked.

I have now removed and re-installed the disconnector and spring. Made sure I put the disconnector tab against the side of the spring and not over it. All looks good and seems to move similar to instructions and photos provided.

I removed the slide stop and re-assembled it making sure the little spring is in the hole. Now slide, slide stop, and safety all work properly.

The hammer is full back(overcocked?) and the top is just sticking maybe 1/32” at most above the frame. With force I can push it down even with the frame. I cannot see any debris in the space around the bottom of the hammer. When I shake the frame the only noise I hear is the rattle of the trigger which moves freely a slight amount back and forth.
Nolan, from the view looking down into the frame I cannot determine what the “hammer strut or the hammer spring plunger” look like so I cannot comment about whether they are centered. The parts around the bottom of the hammer look ok to me.??

The hammer is locked in the overcocked position and will not move forward. The sear spring appears to be in the proper holes. I did not remove the sear. I was afraid to go any further because I don’t know how to release the hammer yet not let it slam forward against the frame as I was warned. I was afraid removing the sear would cause this.

I do believe all this started with loose sight screws, because when I came home and started removing the slide these screws were not tight. I can see how this allowed the slide to rise when firing and thus cause the firing pin to strike on the very edge of the rim resulting in the notch or nick there. I do not understand why this caused the hammer to be locked into the overcocked position.

I’m probably at the point where I probably need to remove the sear to free up the hammer, but I’m not sure I can get it all back together again. Also, the issue about the hammer slamming the frame.
Hope all this helps describe the current situation with my Buckmark. I appreciate any further guidance.
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Old 12-13-2020, 06:51 PM
Nolan

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Originally Posted by Baklash View Post
Ok, I tried to check the many things that were suggested so this will be a long post. Previously I replaced firing pin assembly and extractor even though they all looked ok.
Yes, an empty casing will eject when hand loaded and hand racked.

I have now removed and re-installed the disconnector and spring. Made sure I put the disconnector tab against the side of the spring and not over it. All looks good and seems to move similar to instructions and photos provided.

I removed the slide stop and re-assembled it making sure the little spring is in the hole. Now slide, slide stop, and safety all work properly.

The hammer is full back(overcocked?) and the top is just sticking maybe 1/32” at most above the frame. With force I can push it down even with the frame. I cannot see any debris in the space around the bottom of the hammer. When I shake the frame the only noise I hear is the rattle of the trigger which moves freely a slight amount back and forth.
Nolan, from the view looking down into the frame I cannot determine what the “hammer strut or the hammer spring plunger” look like so I cannot comment about whether they are centered. The parts around the bottom of the hammer look ok to me.??

The hammer is locked in the overcocked position and will not move forward. The sear spring appears to be in the proper holes. I did not remove the sear. I was afraid to go any further because I don’t know how to release the hammer yet not let it slam forward against the frame as I was warned. I was afraid removing the sear would cause this.
The hammer isn't overcocked, that sounds like the normal cocked position. The small amount of extra travel downwards is also normal.

Just hold your thumb on the hammer to prevent it from flying too far forward, then pull the trigger. Does the sear release the hammer? If not, keep your thumb on the hammer and move the sear arm forward as far as it will go with a finger. Does the sear release the hammer? if not, remove the disconnector bar and try again. If the sear now releases the hammer, something is stopping the trigger or disconnector from moving far enough to release the hammer. Does the trigger have an overtravel screw? If so, try turning it out a couple of turns and put the disconnector back in and test again.

Quote:
I do believe all this started with loose sight screws, because when I came home and started removing the slide these screws were not tight. I can see how this allowed the slide to rise when firing and thus cause the firing pin to strike on the very edge of the rim resulting in the notch or nick there. I do not understand why this caused the hammer to be locked into the overcocked position.
As you said, the hammer sticks up above the frame slightly and then can be pushed down. That upward pressure on the slide is what causes it to rise up when the sight rail screws are loose.

Quote:
I’m probably at the point where I probably need to remove the sear to free up the hammer, but I’m not sure I can get it all back together again. Also, the issue about the hammer slamming the frame.
Hope all this helps describe the current situation with my Buckmark. I appreciate any further guidance.
Just use your thumb to control the hammer and if it slips and hits the frame, it's not going to cause much damage if it happens once or twice, just don't make a habit of it.

Nolan
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Old 12-14-2020, 11:05 AM
rdas
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Yeah, I'm with Nolan... I think everything you're describing sounds normal. The hammer is cocked, and being correctly retained by the sear. You can test it with your thumb preventing the hammer from bashing the frame, as Nolan describes, but at this point it seems like you just need to put everything back together and try it out.

Start with some dummy rounds to test basic function. (yellow #4-#6 dry wall anchors would be great for this, because they'll show the firing pin strikes). Then try it at the range with real ammo.

Make sure you get the top rail screws tight when you reassemble it. They should be tightened to around 15 INCH-lbs (not ft-lbs) of torque, which tight, but not crazy tight (you do NOT want to strip those threaded holes, and that is what will break, because the screws are steel, but the frame is aluminum). When you're ready to put them back in, the first step is to wipe any oil or grease from the screws. Second step is to clean out the holes (a Q-tip with 80% of the cotton pulled off works well for this). Third step is to put a drop of purple or blue (NOT red) loctite on the screw threads. Finally, screw them in to around 15 in-lbs. That process should prevent them from loosening while shooting, but still allows you to unscrew them next time you need to.

Just in case you're curious, here's a photo of the hammer link. It's usually seen as that thing hanging out the bottom of the hammer that swings back and forth (as seen in this photo). The bottom / tip of the hammer link sits in a "cup" in the top of the mainspring plunger, which sits inside the mainspring.

This photo shows how these parts fit together. It also shows how the sear spring pushes the bottom of the sear forward, so the bottom of the sear can catch and hold the hammer in the down/cocked position, even if you push the hammer down further and then release pressure on it (exactly as you described).

Dave

Last edited by rdas; 12-14-2020 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:59 PM
Baklash

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rdas, I reassembled everything just to see if things might have fixed themselves, but no such luck. Everything is same as my last post.
Nolan, pulling the trigger does not release the hammer. I have previously said the trigger is loose and moves freely back and forth about 1/8” inch, even making a rattle when I shake the frame. It just feels like the trigger is not attached anywhere other than the main trigger pin even when the gun is completely assembled. There is no resistance either assembled or disassembled until the back of the trigger hits the frame.
I also made sure the disconnector hole is over that top trigger pin.
There is no over travel screw.

I have again disassembled, removing all the parts under the one piece grip.The top of the sear is still forward and about 1/16” from touching the hammer. I have identified the hammer link.
Nolan, I cannot identify or locate the sear arm in order to move it forward with my finger as you instructed. I certainly cannot get a finger in the opening on the left side at the safety arm, nor from the top of the frame. All I can see from the left side is the safety arm, hammer, and hammer link. Can you help me with that? Should I remove the safety click plate? I feel like everything would be ok if I could just release that hammer. I think we are almost there. I just need some more assistance at releasing that blasted hammer.
Thanks again to Nolan and rdas for the terrific information and guidance. You have helped me learn so much about my Buckmark.

Last edited by Baklash; 12-14-2020 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Adding questions
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Old 12-14-2020, 06:18 PM
Nolan

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rdas, I reassembled everything just to see if things might have fixed themselves, but no such luck. Everything is same as my last post.
Nolan, pulling the trigger does not release the hammer. I have previously said the trigger is loose and moves freely back and forth about 1/8” inch, even making a rattle when I shake the frame. It just feels like the trigger is not attached anywhere other than the main trigger pin even when the gun is completely assembled. There is no resistance either assembled or disassembled until the back of the trigger hits the frame.
I also made sure the disconnector hole is over that top trigger pin.
There is no over travel screw.

I have again disassembled, removing all the parts under the one piece grip.The top of the sear is still forward and about 1/16” from touching the hammer. I have identified the hammer link.
Nolan, I cannot identify or locate the sear arm in order to move it forward with my finger as you instructed. I certainly cannot get a finger in the opening on the left side at the safety arm, nor from the top of the frame. All I can see from the left side is the safety arm, hammer, and hammer link. Can you help me with that? Should I remove the safety click plate? I feel like everything would be ok if I could just release that hammer. I think we are almost there. I just need some more assistance at releasing that blasted hammer.
Thanks again to Nolan and rdas for the terrific information and guidance. You have helped me learn so much about my Buckmark.
Okay, maybe I missed it in the original description, but does your pistol have the magazine disconnect still installed? Look at this photo on RDAS website.

http://guns.dsttr.com/img/RightGripR...230_173843.jpg

If it has the magazine disconnect wire still installed, it holds the disconnector down and the trigger is not connected to the sear arm (the little square arm of the sear that sticks out to the side of the frame) until a magazine is inserted in the frame.

Nolan
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:22 AM
Baklash

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I removed the mag disconnect wire as I initially disassembled everything, but re-installed it later when I re-assembled the gun. I have since taken everything apart again, but will re-assemble again and try the trigger with a mag in. Or would you rather I leave the wire out to try the trigger?

Last edited by Baklash; 12-15-2020 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Remove? mark
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:31 AM
Baklash

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I left the wire out, laid the dissconnector and spring in, pulled trigger and viola, the hammer released. I’m going to re-assemble and try things out. Hope this has fixed everything. Will let you know.

Last edited by Baklash; 12-15-2020 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Update
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2020, 12:05 PM
rdas
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Originally Posted by Nolan View Post
Okay, maybe I missed it in the original description, but does your pistol have the magazine disconnect still installed? Look at this photo on RDAS website.

http://guns.dsttr.com/img/RightGripR...230_173843.jpg

If it has the magazine disconnect wire still installed, it holds the disconnector down and the trigger is not connected to the sear arm (the little square arm of the sear that sticks out to the side of the frame) until a magazine is inserted in the frame.

Nolan
+1 The most likely cause is that you have the magazine disconnector safety wire, and you're pulling the trigger with no magazine inserted.

But if that doesn't solve the problem, double-check to make sure:
1) the hole in the front of the disconnector is on the disconnector pin
2) the disconnector spring is positioned correctly... it should be actively trying to push the disconnector both backward and upward at all times
3) the sear pin (which is not visible in the photo, because it is under the disconnector) is flush with the frame on the right side; otherwise it can push the disconnector out and away from the frame, causing the disconnector to miss the sear (it would probably also cause your safety to not work correctly)
4) the hammer pin (which is not visible in the photo, because it is under the disconnector) is flush with the frame on the right side; otherwise it can push the disconnector out and away from the frame, causing the disconnector to miss the sear (it would probably also cause your slide stop to not work correctly)

The "sear arm" that Nolan is referring to is not a separate part. It's just the small rectangular portion of the sear that sticks out to the right, above the frame, which fits into the notch in the disconnector, and is pulled forward by the disconnector when you pull the trigger. It's the part of the sear that you can see in the labelled parts photo that Nolan linked to. In this parts photo of the sear, it's the portion that is sticking up towards the ruler on the left.


To test your hammer release and movement with the grips, disconnector, and slide removed...
1) Hold your thumb over the hammer (your thumb is a softer thing for the hammer to hit than the frame, and it prevents the steel hammer from bashing full-force into the aluminum frame). You can push down on the hammer lightly, to compress the flesh in your thumb so it's more of a "push" than a "hit" when the hammer goes forward, but don't push down hard, or the hammer won't move at all, because you're holding it in place with your thumb, and we're trying to test hammer movement.
2) Then with some kind of probe (a dental pick, toothpick, your fingernail, whatever), push or pull the top of the sear forward. This is easiest to do by pulling or pushing on that rectangular arm of the sear. Since the sear rotates on the sear pin, by pulling the top of the sear forward, you're causing the bottom of the sear to move rearward. Since the bottom of the sear is what's holding the hammer in the cocked position, when you move the bottom of the sear rearward, it will release the hammer (with significant force).

Normally when the gun is ready to fire (gun is assembled, mag inserted, safety off, round in the chamber, etc.), pulling the trigger causes the trigger to pull the disconnector forward, which pulls the top of the sear forward (because the sear arm is in the disconnector notch), which causes the bottom of the sear to rotate rearward, which releases the hammer, which is being constantly pushed up by the mainspring (via the mainspring plunger and hammer link), so the hammer rotates up and forward on it's pin until it hits the back of the firing pin, which causes the front of the firing pin to crush the case rim, magic occurs inside the case, and the bullet gets pushed down the barrel and out. You're just trying to simulate the middle of the sequence, to ensure that the hammer is not stuck.

Dave
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:52 PM
Baklash

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I followed all the instructions, checked everything as I re-assembled. Tested with yellow wall anchors. Everything worked properly. Since the proof is in the pudding I will have to get to the range at first opportunity. I hope the pudding is hot and tastes delicious!
It may take a few days, but I will definitely report back. Much gratitude to all who helped.
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