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  #256  
Old 04-20-2008, 06:31 PM
RICOCHET

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well,

gonna put in my .22¢ here again and let vince decide as it is his game.

"managing" a few games here -n -there, sometimes it is difficult to come up
with a good call. kinda like an ump behind the plate. IF the mzrn'g 4 holes
are far away from the group, then no problem. the targets are large enuff
to do that without having to be playing guessing games. these games are
supposed to be a fun thing. nuff said,

rico....








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  #257  
Old 04-20-2008, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpsMgr View Post
It appears the target in question has been deleted but I did look it over in Brother Rico's post. I too must question the target as the measurement holes MUST be away from the groups, otherwise they look like fliers.

With that said, shall the entrant's name be removed from the list? I will defer to Vincent's call on this one as most of the Pirate Crew has spoken...
deadwooddick and I have cummunicated by PM and he understands the issue and would understand if I pulled. I said in the first post that his name will stay and it will. I do not, for a minute, think he cheated.

My point is that kind of a target makes it hard on those of us that run these games AND opens him to all kinds of questions about his target. It is my true belief that he did not cheat. His name will stay.

No target that looks like this in the future by ANYONE will be accepted.
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  #258  
Old 04-20-2008, 09:12 PM
RICOCHET

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No adjustable cheek pieces or butt plates.
rico....








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  #259  
Old 04-20-2008, 09:21 PM
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I'm sorry but Rico is right. I checked both Sporter and Varmint and it is in the rules we voted on in the beginning.
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  #260  
Old 04-20-2008, 10:01 PM
speed647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TP151 View Post
here is my entry shot today with my new remington 540xr.

I have a question/comment here:

Did you decide #12 was going to be a 'sighter' before or after you shot the #12 group?

*and*

Perhaps it is within the rules, but I believe it is not within 'good faith' to shoot 5 groups on one card and then discard the worst group as something other than part of the entry one is submitting.

JMHO.
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  #261  
Old 04-20-2008, 10:28 PM
speed647
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Hmmm, someone doth protest too much methinks.....
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  #262  
Old 04-20-2008, 11:48 PM
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540xr

vincent and rico

first off i did not read the rules close enough and i can see that i used a gun with an illegal stock. i have no problem with that as i can admit i was wrong. the target should not be allowed. i do have a problem with my honesty being questioned about the target. to you speed647, that sighter target that i shot measured out to out .413 with the deduction of .216 equals .197 which is still under the .250 rule. where i live we use windflags and usually have to shoot in a number of different conditions. without a sighter you do not know where to aim in a condition you are not sighted in for. that sighter is where i started that row and why would i shoot four more groups? if i was dishonest as you claim i would have stopped after only shooting four total groups. where i live when you question a persons honesty you had better be ready to back it up. evidently where you live this must be common practice.

i did these games because they are fun and i love to shoot .22's but it seems to me the guys like speed647 take the fun out of it quickly.

vincent i commend you for running these games and having to deal with all of the different people that post here and complain here. i will not be participating any more in these games. tp151
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  #263  
Old 04-20-2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TP151 View Post
vincent and rico

first off i did not read the rules close enough and i can see that i used a gun with an illegal stock. i have no problem with that as i can admit i was wrong. the target should not be allowed. i do have a problem with my honesty being questioned about the target. to you speed647, that sighter target that i shot measured out to out .413 with the deduction of .216 equals .197 which is still under the .250 rule. where i live we use windflags and usually have to shoot in a number of different conditions. without a sighter you do not know where to aim in a condition you are not sighted in for. that sighter is where i started that row and why would i shoot four more groups? if i was dishonest as you claim i would have stopped after only shooting four total groups. where i live when you question a persons honesty you had better be ready to back it up. evidently where you live this must be common practice.

i did these games because they are fun and i love to shoot .22's but it seems to me the guys like speed647 take the fun out of it quickly.

vincent i commend you for running these games and having to deal with all of the different people that post here and complain here. i will not be participating any more in these games. tp151
hey Tom, we can shoot targets that have won us both state BR championships and state records, but we can't play these games right.
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  #264  
Old 04-21-2008, 12:24 AM
speed647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TP151 View Post
to you speed647, that sighter target that i shot measured out to out .413 with the deduction of .216 equals .197 which is still under the .250 rule.
No question your shooting is excellent. All the more reason to wonder why you'd choose to submit an unusual target like that.
Quote:
where i live we use windflags and usually have to shoot in a number of different conditions. without a sighter you do not know where to aim in a condition you are not sighted in for.
We all have to deal with conditions and verify our sighting, you're not any different.
Quote:
that sighter is where i started that row and why would i shoot four more groups? if i was dishonest as you claim i would have stopped after only shooting four total groups.
Then why not (after sighting in) shoot a one card with four groups and four measuring shots, as has already been suggested, and is common practice in these games?
Quote:
where i live when you question a persons honesty you had better be ready to back it up.
Is that some kind of threat?


We almost never see these kinds of tactics in SS/A, guys shoot their four groups with measuring shots on one card and either it qualifies or it doesn't. Simple, straightforward, nothing to question really. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't leave much room for doubt. Ironically enough, based on your shooting skills it seems you'd shoot qualifying targets without being questioned at all. Think about that.
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  #265  
Old 04-21-2008, 12:42 AM
speed647
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BTW, I'm not running any of these games, I have no authority to say what qualifies and what doesn't. I'm just expressing my opinions. You guys are under no obligation to abide by those opinions at all.
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  #266  
Old 04-21-2008, 06:13 AM
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Just some observations with no intended judgement......

When those of us from SuperStock decided to create SuperStock Bolt, it was with the intentions of designing it in the established tradition of the original with the obvious exception of this forum being for bolt action rifles.

Most of us from SuperStock are casual shooters who like to tinker with our guns and squeeze as much accuracy out of them as we could but with certain limitations concerning stock design, barrel diameter, and the use of certain other devices that include silencers, flash supressors, and harmonic balancers.
Many from the original SS/A were not compition shooters, wether it be BR, Sillo, 3-P, or any other formal compition.
It would appear that many who have joined us here at SuperStock Bolt, who are also well versed in the wolrd of compition rifle shooting march to a different drummer in respects to the use of things like wind flags, sighter shots on every target, and using scoring rings instead of measuring shots to determine final score. These are habbits many of these guys practice no matter what type of game they are shooting.

Obviously Tom and Randy shoot a lot of these formal compitions, and it is in their habbit to shoot sighter shots on every card, just as it is their habbit to use BR targets instead of the various SuperStock game targets made available for download to anyone here.

There is a certain intended "Spirit" of these games that some coming from formal compition do not yet understand, it's part of the growing process we must work through in order for SS/B to become as successful as the original. The thing that must be understood by all is the fact that when this forum was started, there was a period in which we all had a say and vote on the rules, these rules are published at the top of this forum as "stickies", and they should be read by everyone who wants to participate.
Every game has a set of rules which should be read by everyone who wants to submit a target for those games.

I also believe that if this issue does not correct itself in a timely mannor, we may need to require that a certain number of established SS targets be required for use in these games, but first I think some time should be given for everyone to assimilate themselves to the spirit and practices of SuperStock before we get too daconian with our rules of engagement.......
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  #267  
Old 04-21-2008, 08:25 AM
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Tony that is a very good observation.

First. I can see where Speed is coming from.

Second. I figured out what randymac and TP151 have been doing and I have no problem with it although it is not "normal" for SuperStock.

Both of their names will stay on the list.

Now hopefully we can put all this target stuff behind us and get back to SHOOTING targets as opposed to shooting them down.
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  #268  
Old 04-21-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed647 View Post
I have a question/comment here:

Did you decide #12 was going to be a 'sighter' before or after you shot the #12 group?

*and*

Perhaps it is within the rules, but I believe it is not within 'good faith' to shoot 5 groups on one card and then discard the worst group as something other than part of the entry one is submitting.

JMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Mig View Post
Just some observations with no intended judgement......

When those of us from SuperStock decided to create SuperStock Bolt, it was with the intentions of designing it in the established tradition of the original with the obvious exception of this forum being for bolt action rifles.

Most of us from SuperStock are casual shooters who like to tinker with our guns and squeeze as much accuracy out of them as we could but with certain limitations concerning stock design, barrel diameter, and the use of certain other devices that include silencers, flash supressors, and harmonic balancers.
Many from the original SS/A were not compition shooters, wether it be BR, Sillo, 3-P, or any other formal compition.
It would appear that many who have joined us here at SuperStock Bolt, who are also well versed in the wolrd of compition rifle shooting march to a different drummer in respects to the use of things like wind flags, sighter shots on every target, and using scoring rings instead of measuring shots to determine final score. These are habbits many of these guys practice no matter what type of game they are shooting.

Obviously Tom and Randy shoot a lot of these formal compitions, and it is in their habbit to shoot sighter shots on every card, just as it is their habbit to use BR targets instead of the various SuperStock game targets made available for download to anyone here.

There is a certain intended "Spirit" of these games that some coming from formal compition do not yet understand, it's part of the growing process we must work through in order for SS/B to become as successful as the original. The thing that must be understood by all is the fact that when this forum was started, there was a period in which we all had a say and vote on the rules, these rules are published at the top of this forum as "stickies", and they should be read by everyone who wants to participate.
Every game has a set of rules which should be read by everyone who wants to submit a target for those games.

I also believe that if this issue does not correct itself in a timely mannor, we may need to require that a certain number of established SS targets be required for use in these games, but first I think some time should be given for everyone to assimilate themselves to the spirit and practices of SuperStock before we get too daconian with our rules of engagement.......
I can't help myself and therefor this can't go unsaid. I agree with Speed and Tony 100%. I don't care what randymac and TP151 were trying to do OR what competition they have participated in. If anything they should understand rules given their backgrounds and shame on them for acting surprised when a rule is called - Can't abide poor sportsmanship as it is contrary to the "Spirit of SuperStock".

Additionally, deadwooddick's target is questionable as well and has been removed by the shooter I presume yet he remains on the list?

Vince, we can just agree to disagree about allowing these targets and that is fine. Your game, your call. This is my last post on this subject - Rant off.
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  #269  
Old 04-21-2008, 09:52 PM
Cu-Melter
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I mentioned earlier that Rick wouldn't have any issue re-submitting a target.
I caught myself shooting an incorrect target (4 instead of 5) and had to knock myself in the noggin for not fully understanding what was required.

Again...He has a high rolling rifle...He has the skill to deliver... and I have no question he could submit another winner.

I'm quite sure one of his secrets is how he handles his rifle and I very sure he knows that rifle inside & out. This is a forefront for anyone wanting to shoot accurately. Easy words...and easily adapted if given enough thought.

I hope this can eventually become alot of water under the bridge and move on. This has already gone far enough. With all respect to Vincent & the participants of SuperStock. This is about sharing knowledge and fellowship first & foremost.
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  #270  
Old 04-21-2008, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpsMgr View Post
I can't help myself and therefor this can't go unsaid. I agree with Speed and Tony 100%. I don't care what randymac and TP151 were trying to do OR what competition they have participated in. If anything they should understand rules given their backgrounds and shame on them for acting surprised when a rule is called - Can't abide poor sportsmanship as it is contrary to the "Spirit of SuperStock".

Additionally, deadwooddick's target is questionable as well and has been removed by the shooter I presume yet he remains on the list?

Vince, we can just agree to disagree about allowing these targets and that is fine. Your game, your call. This is my last post on this subject - Rant off.
For me it is about keeping MY word. In the first post on this subject I said I was going to post deadwooddick's name. I figured the target out BEFORE I brought it up. I was trying to stop MORE targets like it.

I gave my word.

That was that.
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