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Old 04-04-2020, 08:42 AM
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winchester 52 firing pin



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For you guys that know for sure, is the firing pin in the B the same as the firing pin in a C, and D? In other words, will they interchange? I could disassemble mine to see, but I figure this may be easier.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:42 AM
Seewin
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The B firing pin is different from the later rifles.
Steve
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:49 AM
68hoyt

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Numrich had b firing pins , we ordered some , they are either new made or nos , one the tip was bent and one the cocking end , the two points was clocked wrong 90 degrees .for us it ended up being 50/50 good bad , we still havenít installed them yet to see if they work .
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:01 AM
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As noted by Steve they are different and here are a couple of the differences

- B firing pin - Sear engagement is at the rear of the firing pin and bottom of the firing pin body is open which exposes the firing pin spring.

- C, D, E firing pin - Sear engagement approximately in the middle of firing pin and the firing pin spring is completely enclosed

They both use the same firing pin spring and their disassembly is the same.

Additionally The C, D, E firing pin, bolt and receiver were "carburized" to give it greater hardness.

Bill
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:17 PM
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Thank you very much guys. I was thinking the B pin was some different from the C,D,& E but my memory is not very reliable anymore.

I've been troubleshooting my 52E and was looking into the possibility that the firing pin could be part of the problem. The gun has exhibited outstanding accuracy over the years for a factory gun, but right at the tail end of last years club match season, I noticed a definite drop-off in my scores. Perhaps it was just a coincidence, but this happened at the next match after I accidentally knocked the gun over off it's rests onto the concrete bench top....twice (long story). On the same day that I knocked the gun over, I noticed the trigger behaving erratically. A few weeks later, I took the barreled action out of the stock and removed the trigger. As described in a previous post, I found that the two screws that hold the side plates together had loosened enough to allow the trigger pivot pin to back out enough to let one side drop a tiny amount. I put things back right, reassembled things, and tried the gun out. Still not shooting right and with erratic flyers.....this while shooting a very good lot of tested Midas +.

Since then I have inspected the bore with my bore scope, checked the crown, scrubbed the chamber and bore thoroughly, and double checked torque on the action screws, and swapped scopes out. I have disassembled the bolt and given parts a good cleaning and installed a different firing pin spring. Checked the firing pin for free travel. I did notice that the firing pin imprint was running over the case rim, so I used a diamond hone to profile the edge of the tip a bit. Still no better.

So today, I decided to swap firing pins and springs with a 52D that shoots well for me. I also have a B hence the question about the firing pins. Anyway, I ended up breaking both the D and E bolts down with the intention of swapping firing pins. But I guess the firing pins are hand fitted to the bolts as the D pin would not slide all the way into the E bolt without binding in the hole in the face of the bolt. So, I put them back together as they were....except that I swapped springs. As you can see, I'm down to grasping at straws here. But something has changed....the gun averaged 249 on the IR 50/50 target at our matches last year, and now I would guess it might do 242....maybe.

Any ideas?
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Old 04-04-2020, 02:53 PM
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Pump, that made me cringe ,,,,,,scope of peeps ? Swap out scope for a known good one , peeps check all the mounting hardware , have you let someone else shoot it ? Are you shooting your other guns to the same accuracy as they usually exhibit ? Keep us informed on what your trying and or if what you find , god luck
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Old 04-04-2020, 04:17 PM
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Unertl 20X target scope. Swapped out for a known good Ultravarmint in 15X with same results. I'm shooting everything else about the same as always, so something not right with the gun or so it seems. I also double checked the bedding....that is fine.
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:31 PM
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Might check bolt handle clearance vs. stock and make sure no part of trigger assembly is touching stock or t/g. Maybe something moved when it fell over. If it's not the same lot of ammo as you were shooting high scores with before, I'd try something different. As you know, a lot that shoots well in 1 rifle may not in another.
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:08 AM
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Same lot of excellent Midas + that was shot in it for the last two years. I don't think it's the trigger, but I'll take another look....not going to leave any stones unturned.
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:25 PM
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Pump22
I have an possible idea of what may be going on.
My 52C also went from excellent to inconsistent and it took a while for me to figure it out. Could be happening to yours also.
You need to put a dummy round in the chamber to protect it. And fire it many times while watching how the cocking teat on the firing pin moves forward.
The point of the teat must be perfectly centered to the V of the cocking ramp.
If the teat is moving to the left it can contact the cocking ramp and cause inconsistent ignition as in picture 2. So how can this happen? After all, when you disassembled your bolt you saw that the black cocking teat and the firing are all one part. In the parts list they have one number.
Well they are two parts. The cocking teat collar is threaded onto the the body of the firing pin. (Has nothing to do with the retaining screw at the rear of the bolt.) If it comes loose it can move side to side, and occasionally strike the left side of the loading ramp slowing pin fall causing inconsistent ignition and accuracy loss. I believe these were soldered at the factory but can come loose. I just used red Loctite to reassemble.
Not sure if this is what is going on with yours, but if not this may help someone else.
Please let us know.
Glen H
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Old 04-05-2020, 03:03 PM
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Thank you very much Glen, I'll take a look at that.

James
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:35 PM
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Finally took time to take a good look at the bolt/firing pin alignment as suggested by Glen. In fact, I looked at the bolts from my B, D, and E. With the D and E, the top "teat" - as Glen refers to it - on the firing pin collar is slightly out of line with the deepest part of the notch of the cocking ramp of the bolt on both the D and E, not quiet as much as shown in Glen's pic above. But, if i flip the bolt over, they are lined up on the bottom. Regardless, in my gun's case, I don't think they are out of alignment enough for contact to be made as the firing pin travels forward to it's stop. I found that by slightly lifting the bolt after fully closing it, I could get perfect alignment on the top teat and notch. So, I shot the gun this afternoon with the bolt lifted slightly and with it fully closed.....I could see no difference. The gun did seem to shoot pretty well, but still not what it was.

One thing I do notice. the firing pin strikes are not exceptionally deep on all three guns. The tip of the firing pin does not extend out even with the front of the bolt (not the recess where the cartridge head sits) but is slightly below,and maybe that's the way it is supposed to be.

So, my question is, what acts as the firing pin stop on these guns. I did not think to check that when I had the bolt disassembled. In some guns I have been able to take a little material off whatever acted as a stop to allow the firing pin to travel slightly further and get a little deeper strike.

Thanks,

James
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2020, 10:20 PM
Seewin
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The head of the firing pin acts as the stop for firing pin. Factory protrusion is .032" - .037". Counterbore in bolt face for rim of cartridge is .04" +0/-.002".
I would check your firing pin with no spring or bolt handle to make sure it was not bent when rifle fell. If bolt was open, I can see that occurring, which could cause some binding of the firing pin in bolt body. Also, it could cause the head of firing pin to be bent in relation to positive stop on end of bolt body, not giving correct protrusion.
As mentioned prior, Winchester threaded both the head and firing pin body, then copper brazed the assembly. This procedure was done early in the manufacturing process. The head was not fully machined, just the threads and the forward facing "V's". The pin at this point was nothing more than a solid .350" rod. Balance of machining was done on head and pin after brazing. I might mention also, that the entire assy was held to very tight tolerances to guarantee correct protrusion and also that head be squared with balance of pin.
Steve

Last edited by Seewin; 04-06-2020 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seewin View Post
The head of the firing pin acts as the stop for firing pin. Factory protrusion is .032" - .037". Counterbore in bolt face for rim of cartridge is .04" +0/-.002".
I would check your firing pin with no spring or bolt handle to make sure it was not bent when rifle fell. If bolt was open, I can see that occurring, which could cause some binding of the firing pin in bolt body. Also, it could cause the head of firing pin to be bent in relation to positive stop on end of bolt body, not giving correct protrusion.
As mentioned prior, Winchester threaded both the head and firing pin body, then copper brazed the assembly. This procedure was done early in the manufacturing process. The head was not fully machined, just the threads and the forward facing "V's". The pin at this point was nothing more than a solid .350" rod. Balance of machining was done on head and pin after brazing. I might mention also, that the entire assy was held to very tight tolerances to guarantee correct protrusion and also that head be squared with balance of pin.
Steve
Thank you Steve....based on the dimensions, you give, the firing pins in all three of my guns fall within specs. I did check for free movement of the firing pin in the bolt while I had it disassembled...no problem there and I could see nothing that looked damaged or bent.

I just received some Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover and some new brushes, and I plan to give the bore and chamber a good cleaning with that.

James
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