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  #16  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:44 PM
A square 10
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very nice looking rifle , i love these little pumps
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hiddenhider View Post
I found this little jewel lurking in a corner of the safe today.

I havenít fired this gun in 30 years and I probably never will again; Iím not taking the chance with modern ammo. Sometimes youíve just got to sit in the living room cradling it and remembering the good old days with Grandpa.
Standard velocity ammo should be fine in it. CCI SV is my go to ammo for all my old semi-autos, pistols and rifles. Just because there is a lot of HV and UHV ammo out there doesn't mean you have to use it.
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  #18  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:56 AM
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Yep same for my eyes, so i bought a tang sight for it. Had to get a one where i had to drill a hole in the stock, though. Hated to do that, but boy sure made a big difference in my shooting.
I'm guessing you didn't get the tang sight that 12s often came with, those are quite expensive.
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joe45c View Post
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Originally Posted by Dead Eagle Eye View Post
Love shooting my 12C at 2 inch steel targets 50 meters. Most are hits which is pretty good considering iron sights and my poor eye sight.
Yep same for my eyes, so i bought a tang sight for it. Had to get a one where i had to drill a hole in the stock, though. Hated to do that, but boy sure made a big difference in my shooting.
I bought a vintage Lyman R12 tang sight for my 12C. Cost an arm and a leg, but it was purpose made for the model 12 so no drilling required. Made shooting the gun much more fun.
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by joe45c View Post
Yep same for my eyes, so i bought a tang sight for it. Had to get a one where i had to drill a hole in the stock, though. Hated to do that, but boy sure made a big difference in my shooting.
The Marble's is made to take a s crew in the wood but I find it unnecessary, the sight is really quite stable without it and if you bump it without the third screw it has some flex and will give a little and go back in place, if you bumped it hard enough to bend it without the screw it would probably break something if bumped with the same amount of force and the screw in place. I have one with just the head of a screw glued in the hole to make it look 'right'.
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  #21  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:13 AM
joe45c
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Originally Posted by NHcollector2 View Post
I'm guessing you didn't get the tang sight that 12s often came with, those are quite expensive.
Nope keep losing out on bidding for the lyman R-12s. so i ended up getting the marbles 3 screw type as SAV22 posted about. The sight uses the 2 screw holes on guns receiver and the 3rd one is drilled into the wood. I thought about using the sight without drilling the stock as SAV22 suggested, but from what i can remember something wasn't right. I think it was because the rear of the sight set up above the stock. Thought about trying to bend it down to be more form fitting, but for some reason decided against it. Seemed like everytime i entered into bibing on the R-12 the bidding would go over $300.00. Almost more than i paid for 12c. so i decided to get the Marbles sight at half the price.
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2020, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by joe45c View Post
Seemed like everytime i entered into bibing on the R-12 the bidding would go over $300.00. Almost more than i paid for 12c. so i decided to get the Marbles sight at half the price.
That's about what I paid for an R-12 five years ago. It was a tough pill to swallow, but the sentimental value of my gun made it worth while. My grandfather bought the gun new and long ago it actually had an R-12 mounted on it, then removed at some point.
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  #23  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:08 AM
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Just Shoot the 12A

I have 4 or 5 of the 12-A, including one my grandfather bought for my dad and his brothers in North Dakota about 1914. I relined and totally restored that one; my first rifle at about age 9. Still love these and the model 121 successor.

If the action is sound, and the fit of the breech block to the barrel and receiver is reasonably close (check carefully), there is no reason at all not to use modern high velocity ammo. Ignore advice from those who don't know. I have 70 years experience with this model. They are in the same category as Winchester's hammerless 61 pump rifles, and made/designed to the same standards. I have both.

These are all keepers and can be safely shot, perhaps unless a particular rifle is so pristine that it should be preserved as a collector's piece. For restoration, most parts can be obtained easily, except the breech block. If abused and not cleaned, there will often be too much erosion and wear on the breech face, creating too much headspace. That will cause cartridge "droop" during feeding, endless jams, and burst cases. If you ever buy a used one, check this issue very carefully before you buy. Only buy it if you are competent to fix it and know that you can get the part.

So examine your rifle carefully, and if all is O.K., shoot it. The look, the feel, the size, design quality...everything is just right. And I especially like my two 12-C target models, with longer and heavier octagon barrels.
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  #24  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:44 AM
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Each to his own - understanding that we all don't have the same opinions and with all due respect to those with different opinions, but I would not recommend shooting high speed ammo in the Model 12. Yes, it may work just fine for an extended period of time, but you are operating on the edge of what that gun was designed to handle. There have been ample examples of damage (cracked bolts, excessive headspace,etc.) caused by extensive shooting of modern high speed ammo in the model 12 over an extended period of time. The late model 12 guns had changes to the bolt design (for good reason) that beefed them up and that led on into the Model 121 which enabled them to better withstand shooting modern high speed ammo. More modern guns (including the Winchester 61 - which is better compared to the Model 121) have stouter actions that can withstand the pressures generated by modern high speed ammo. One older rimfire that could handle high speed ammo was the old Winchester 1890 (Third Model ).

Other guns of the same time period as the Model 12, including various marlin models like the Model 38, Savages like the Model 1914 and up through the Model 29 were not designed to satisfactory handle high speed ammo.

But when all is said and done, the owner of any firearm has the right to decide what is safe to shoot in that gun. Personally, I have modern rimfires for modern high speed ammo. Where the older guns of questionable strength are concerned, I lean toward playing it safe and find SV ammo like CCI SV to work very well.

For what it's worth......
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  #25  
Old 02-21-2020, 11:19 AM
pete379
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12A

Phil, I hope you read pump-22's post because he knows what he is talking about. You indicate you also have a 121. Take the similar looking bolts out and compare them. The 12 bolt will fit in the 121 but not vice-versa as the recoil lug is beefed up on the 121. Also the ads of the time mention how the new 121 will now take the new hi-speed ammo(mid 30's). There was a smith one time who showed some pictures of some broken Model 12 bolts. Some had the recoil lugs sheared off and some had the entire section above the flat firing pin broken off. I have one spare bolt because I have a dozen or so of those rifles, but I'd be hard pressed to find another one if I needed one. All that being said, we four boys grew up shooting the dickens out of Dad's 12A with the ready available Hi-Speed ammo without breaking the bolt. The flat firing pin was a different story. Good luck, Ben
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  #26  
Old 02-21-2020, 01:11 PM
joe45c
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I follow others like Pumps 22 and Pete 379 advice and only shoot standard vel in my 12c. I may be able to get away with shooting High Vel. in it but i don't want to take a chance. Too many people suggest not to. And finding a replacement Bolt sounds almost impossible. So why press my luck. Besides i get great results shooting CCI Standard Vel in it anyway. But like Pumps 22 stated to each his own.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by joe45c View Post
I follow others like Pumps 22 and Pete 379 advice and only shoot standard vel in my 12c. I may be able to get away with shooting High Vel. in it but i don't want to take a chance. Too many people suggest not to. And finding a replacement Bolt sounds almost impossible. So why press my luck. Besides i get great results shooting CCI Standard Vel in it anyway. But like Pumps 22 stated to each his own.
This year my model 12 for sure became over 100 years old. From various sources it was made between 1915 and 1919. So by 2020 it has surpassed 100 years. I have shot every kind of .22 ammo through it. It has the Lyman flip up sight fitted to it, and I have made some very good long distance shots with it. Since it ain't broke I decided to no longer shoot high velocity ammo in it. The old rifle works perfectly and I wanna keep it that way.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2020, 08:13 AM
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Around serial number 650,000 the Model 12 bolt was changed to a round firing pin which made them much stronger - those MAY handle HI-Speed fine, or at least better than the earlier ones. I have seen several bolts with the locking lug gone, but never one of the later ones with a round firing pin. This picture with a broken bolt shows how little metal is left under the locking lug where it's milled out for the flat firing pin.

In the background is an old Numrich catalog, they used to sell a kit with a modified Model 121 bolt for early the Model 12- these had the round firing pin but had the locking lug milled down to Model 12 size and the front of the bolt tapered.

Another factor could be variations in the alloy of the metal and in the heat treating, strength can vary from one batch of steel to another and from the heat treat - because one gun seems fine with Hi-Speed doesn't necessarily mean they all will, Remington evidently thought it necessary to make the locking lugs much larger on the 121's for some reason.

Last edited by Sav22; 02-27-2020 at 08:16 AM.
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