Bert H:
I stand corrected with respect to my high wall. It is indeed what collectors call a 2nd Type Mdl 1885. It's been awhile since I playes with these and I should have checked my records more carefully before I posted these photos.
You're also correct in that the two low walls are known by collectors, and internal Winchester documents, as Mdl 1887s, however some of the one's chambered for .22 Long Rifle were indeed martially marked. If you look carefully at the close up of the tang on mine, you will see the "U S flaming bomb" roll mark. In an October, 1995 issue of 'Arms of Man" article written by John Campbell, titled "Winchester's Single-shot Muskets", he states:
"It's interesting to note that the Director of Civilian Marksmanship announced the availability of the new Model 87 Muskets, chambered for the .22 Long Rifle, in Feburary 1924."
There's another article in the American Rifleman, that also refers to these Winder Muskets chambered in .22 Long Rifle. In 1932 R.F. Sedgley advertised them as available in .22 Hornet and .22LR with customized stocks, etc. and apparently Winchester also would provide them in both .22 Hornet and 25-20 WCF as you noted.
Actually, Bert we corrisponded about these two Mdl 1887 Winder Third Type Muskets back in January, 2005 were you said:
Third Variation - low-wall frame, coil spring action
> > (not offered in
> > Takedown), rear sight (Lyman No. 53) mounted on the
> > right-hand side of the
> > frame with four screws. The forestock is identical
> > to the Second variation
> > but shortly after production began, a transverse
> > band screw was used to
> > retain the barrel band instead of a spring clip (the
> > change occurred circa
> > May 1918). The production period was from Jan 1918
> > to June of 1920 (when
> > all production of the Model 1885 Single-shot
> > ceased), and an estimated total
> > of 12,735 were made. The vast majority of this
> > variation will be found
> > chambered for the 22 SHORT cartridge, with
> > approximately only 5% of the
> > total production being chambered for the 22 LONG R.
> > There were a very scant
> > few that were chambered for the 22 LONG, and at
> > least two that were
> > chambered for the 25-20 W.C.F. centerfire cartridge.
> > The Third Variation
> > was cataloged and listed by Winchester as the “Model
> > 87” for an unknown
> > reason, but it is a Model 1885 in all respects.
> >
> > The Third Model is the only confirmed variation that
> > was manufactured
> > specifically for the U.S. Government. Winchester
> > signed a contract with the
> > U.S. Army in late 1917, and the first order (for
> > 2,000) was let on December
> > 5th, 1917. Actual production began in early January
> > of 1918. Of the 12,735
> > estimated to have been made, approximately 11,800 of
> > them were shipped to
> > the U. S. Army's Springfield armory. Those that
> > were accepted were stamped
> > with "U S" and a flaming ordnance bomb on the
> > upper tang directly behind
> > the hammer. According to my research, many of those
> > martially marked Model
> > 87s ended up in National Guard units, College and
> > High-school ROTC units,
> > Railroads, and USCG stations.
Both of these Mdl 1887 Muskets should be in your data base. Thanks for information.
Regards:
LDHare
PS: When are you going to publish your book on these Winder Muskets? Let me know and I'll jump on the advanced sales list.