HELP! 54 Sporter won't shoot with a cold barrel - Page 3 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:57 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
South Central WI, USA
Posts: 
4,023
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)


Log in to see fewer ads
Be aware that cleaning the bore and cleaning the chamber are two different and distinct actions.
Fwiw, last fall for hunting season a friend bemoaned his fav hunting rifle would 'throw' the first shot from a cold bore. Not good. I suggested he apply some lip balm to the first round (only) ready to chamber. He reported that the first round flier was gone.
ymmv
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-16-2020, 05:59 PM
elohssa63's Avatar
elohssa63 is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2012
Location: 
Golden Gulf Coast
Posts: 
1,865
TPC Rating: 
75% (2)
I would loose the steel wool in favor of bronze wool or the big 45 Frontier cleaning pad.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:28 PM
kisssofdeath's Avatar
kisssofdeath
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Greer, SC
Posts: 
2,150
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseytoo View Post
I have a new to me 54 sporter built in 1970 that I have been trying to get to shoot. The first 5 rounds from a cold barrel group around 1.5 - 2in at 50 yards, then it starts to tighten up. Best group I have when hot is 5 shots in .060 at 50yds. It will never group together until it warms up, I don't clean or change ammo, so its not a clean bore situation. Just has to warm up. It will start to get tighter after the first 5 rounds. Barrel is floated back to barrel bulge for the rear sight, can't tell about behind the "dog knot". Anybody have any ideas? Thanks in advance
Yeah, it's true, I didn't read all three pages but just jumped here to address the OP's question. If you have a rifle that shoots a flyer on the first shot every time the rifle is shot you will likely never get rid of the "cold bore flyer". If this is a hunting rifle and the first shot has to count and if you have confidence the rifle will always throw that first shot the same way every time then you will have to adjust your aim. For example, if you are shooting 1.5" high at 50 yards and you are squirrel hunting then I would suggest aiming 1.5" low at that distance. Taking in consideration of my example, you can sight that rifle in every single time and it will still shoot 1.5" high from where the reticle is pointing. Think of it this way, where ever the reticle is pointing the bullet impact will always be 1.5" high away from your aiming spot. Say you adjust your scope to hit 1.5" high and stop shooting, thinking your rifle is sighted in for that cold bore shot. Guess what, you get the rifle back out and shoot that first shot what happens? The first shot goes 1.5" high. That's why it's called a cold bore flyer.

I would say your best bet is finding another brand/type of ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:41 PM
WillR
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2017
Location: 
YooEssofEh
Posts: 
26
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
As a bench rest competitive shooter, what the OP describes is modus operandi for all the .22 rifles I own - Winchester, Savage, Anschutz, Ruger, Browning - they all do it. I typically will fire 10 fowling shots before even pointing the gun at the real target. 1” off at 50 yards is pretty typical. I only use the best of the best ammo - Tenex, Midas +, Center X RWS 50 and 100, they all do it. I have thousands of rounds of CCI STD for goofing around (Best value .22LR ammo IMO) it it does it too. Just another of the many quirks of the .22LR rimfire that makes it both interesting and challenging.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:32 PM
skams

Join Date: 
Nov 2019
Location: 
New Zealand
Posts: 
5
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I shoot 50 meter and 25 Yd small bore competitions and have used in the past a Anschutz match 54 Model 1413 and currently use a FWB model 2700 and in my experience, the first few shots from both rifles were off my last POA for the first few (up to 5 or more) shots. 50 meters allows for unlimited sighters so there isn't a problem, I just shoot sighters until I'm satisfied that I'm shooting consistently in the middle. 25 Yds however, we are only allowed 2 or 3 sighters but do get up to 1 minute for warming shots when I usually fire 2 shots and find that's enough for me and both rifles.

After each shooting session I usually push a couple of dry cleaning rags down the barrel (just once each from the breach) to remove any soot and other loose residues. The reason I do that is I found (mainly with the Anschutz) that some brands of match grade ammo were quite sooty and if left, the fouling would tend to harden up, and the next session, the first few shots would tend to glaze or polish the fouling left over from the previous session and that would play havoc with the accuracy so I found the dry rags were enough to get rid of that soot before it had a chance to harden up but seemed to leave a little of the lube behind, whatever, the rifles don't require a whole lot of warming shots that they need after a proper clean with solvent etc.

Occasionally when I feel that accuracy is dropping off I will give the barrel a good scrub out with a bronze brush with solvent and move on to solvent soaked rags and then finish with dry rags until I'm satisfied that the barrel is clean. I always work from the breech end of the barrel towards the muzzle and never reverse.

After a scrub out it can take either rifle 15 to 20 rounds to settle down to their former accuracy, although I have had the FWB on the money from the first shot but wouldn't rely on that happening.

Cheers, Simon
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:22 PM
kim84sil22's Avatar
kim84sil22
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2010
Location: 
Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 
792
TPC Rating: 
100% (8)
Cold Bore Shot After Good Chamber Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by joseytoo View Post
Again, Thanks everyone! Velocette, I took a bronze brush, wrapped it with 0000 steel wool saturated in WD40, and pushed it through the bore several times last night. It fit really tight at first , and at one point in the barrel I could feel a tight spot. Scrubbed until I didn't feel it any more, refreshing the wool as needed to keep it tight. I examined it with a hawkeye borescope after and didn't see anything, but I know how things are not always what they appear to be. Thought I would let it sit overnite and think about life, then try cleaning again before I shoot. We will see! I know some have said shoot better ammo, but I don't think it would be ammo, after it warms up it shoots too good. Thanks!
Let us know how its shooting the cold bore shot after the good cleaning. My experience is it will go to Point of Aim and repeat.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:14 PM
jcw3's Avatar
jcw3

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
Luray, Virginia
Posts: 
942
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
We shoot a lot of sporter (barrels smaller than a dime) matches in our area. Usually shot at 20, 30, and 50 yards (some indoors and some outdoors). Generally, these matches only allow 1 cold shot or none at all. Most of these sporters have 24-40x scopes and some guys are running some high dollar setups (though some are shooting stock CZ's with 32x BSA scopes and doing decent).

Most factory and custom rifles do not have the same poi on the cold shot. Even when using a good cold shot gun, it's common to see a bullet width or more variance in the first and second shot. Also as the temperatures change, you will often find your sporter walking around and adjustments will be needed.

Most hunting rifles will stay within 1' or less with a cold barrel and I expect groups to tighten up at the barrel gets seasoned and warmed up.

My one Annie sporter likes a pressure point under the barrel. I cut a piece of rubber intertube and played around with creating a pressure point. I found it shot better cold shots with the pressure point. All my other rifles like to be free floated. The one rifle that likes a pressure point has a fiberglass stock, so maybe that has something to do with it. I did find the fiberglass stock is less sensitive to temp changes and weather conditions.

Good luck with your sporter. Honestly, I feel you have a rifle that just does not perform well with a cold barrel. I have an S/A 141 that did the same. I scoped the barrel and found out the chamber was pitted (i bought it used). It makes a great hunting rifle, but not much for paper.

Last edited by jcw3; 01-22-2020 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:28 AM
joseytoo

Join Date: 
Jan 2020
Posts: 
11
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
It's not so much that the first shot is off, it's that the rifle just refuses to group until it's warmed up. First 5 might shoot 1.250 to 1.500 maybe even larger, next 5 tighten up, then the next 5 are even better. The best 5 shot at 50yd group I have shot with it so far is 0.060 at 50 yds., but that is after 25 to 30 rounds have gone down the tube. Sounds like everyone is saying it's just a .22 thing, deal with it. I am very happy with what it does after several rounds. She will definitely make me do my part!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:42 PM
jps2486

Join Date: 
Dec 2011
Posts: 
206
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Most, if not all, rifles, will not be on target until the barrel warms up. I usually put 10-20 rounds through it before I get serious.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:13 PM
Penage Guy's Avatar
Penage Guy

Join Date: 
Dec 2013
Location: 
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 
4,112
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseytoo View Post
It's not so much that the first shot is off, it's that the rifle just refuses to group until it's warmed up. First 5 might shoot 1.250 to 1.500 maybe even larger, next 5 tighten up, then the next 5 are even better. The best 5 shot at 50yd group I have shot with it so far is 0.060 at 50 yds., but that is after 25 to 30 rounds have gone down the tube. Sounds like everyone is saying it's just a .22 thing, deal with it. I am very happy with what it does after several rounds. She will definitely make me do my part!
To clarify, what sizes are the first couple of groups? Once the groups get good, do they continue to remain that way? Is the 0.060" group a one-time-only group so far or does the rifle repeat nearly as small groups after 25 rounds have gone through the bore?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:41 AM
joseytoo

Join Date: 
Jan 2020
Posts: 
11
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
After the first 5 round group it starts to come together. Seems like the first 5 always go 1.25 to 1.50 or so. The more you shoot the better it gets. After she gets tuned up for that session you can pretty much count on less than .500 for 5 @ 50, if I do my part. .375 is not uncommon in good conditions. It's been blowing and nasty here for several days, so I haven't been able to shoot since I cleaned it. No reason to try in 20 - 25mph wind!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:56 AM
Penage Guy's Avatar
Penage Guy

Join Date: 
Dec 2013
Location: 
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 
4,112
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseytoo View Post
After the first 5 round group it starts to come together. Seems like the first 5 always go 1.25 to 1.50 or so. The more you shoot the better it gets. After she gets tuned up for that session you can pretty much count on less than .500 for 5 @ 50, if I do my part. .375 is not uncommon in good conditions. It's been blowing and nasty here for several days, so I haven't been able to shoot since I cleaned it. No reason to try in 20 - 25mph wind!
It appears that if fouling shots are fired before shooting to count, the rifle is performing as it should. If you want to be thorough, try cleaning to eliminate any possibility of a carbon ring just ahead of the chamber being the cause of initially larger groups than the rifle typically shoots. Otherwise, clean the bore regularly, shoot foulers, and enjoy your rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-27-2020, 11:30 AM
Artd's Avatar
Artd is online now
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jul 2004
Location: 
North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 
400
TPC Rating: 
100% (8)
Invest in a borescope. Only way to know it the barrel is truly clean. Teslong USB is relatively inexpensive, $50 range, and apparently works great. I have a Lyman borescope and use it extensively.

Accurateshooter.com/ Teslong
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:17 PM
PWNolan's Avatar
PWNolan
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Moderator
Join Date: 
Sep 2008
Location: 
Lost
Posts: 
4,431
TPC Rating: 
100% (14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artd View Post
...Teslong USB is relatively inexpensive, $50 range, and apparently works great....

Accurateshooter.com/ Teslong
It actually works very well considering the price. I've only used mine a couple times since I got it but I was impressed. I can view on my phone, tablet, or PC too. Make no mistake, it's no Hawkeye but does the job for the price
__________________
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x