Carl Bernosky Win52D Range Outing - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-25-2021, 10:54 PM
layer3guru
US Marines Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Posts: 
635
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Carl Bernosky Win52D Range Outing



Log in to see fewer ads
https://youtu.be/ZRZG7owEyrc

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-26-2021, 09:29 AM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
12,308
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Just a few observations (no criticisms intended):

I have competed pretty extensively with the Winchester 52 B, D, & E using Unertl Scopes (15X & 20X) with a good deal of success. So based on that and much shooting at my own home range and having worked on the these guns and scopes...

- When shooting the Unertl with a loose recoil spring (I don't, I compress the spring so that it resets itself), one should reset the scope after each shot. When I have shot with a loose spring and forget to do that, I found it affects shot placement.

- Every gun, including the Winchester 52, is very much sensitive to ammo types and lots. I found it to be pretty amazing as to how much groups could vary from lot to lot, therefor I never competed until I had tested for the best ammo I could come up with for that particular gun. I found a lot of Tenex and Midas + that didn't shoot so well....while other lots shot exceptionally well.

- I found that when I shot a 52 for which I had good lot tested ammo, they were very competitive...even against many of the custom guns.

- Not every Winchester 52 or (pick the gun brand or type) is going to shoot well.

- I never had a Winchester 52 that shot as poorly as the one you tested if it had been properly tuned and was shooting lot tested ammo. Not a knock on the gun or on your shooting, but perhaps that gun needed ammo specifically matched to it.

- While the 52 may not be able, on the average, to keep pace with modern custom built guns, they were and are amazingly accurate guns for being a factory gun. I am not afraid to shoot them against Anschutz, Remington 40X, or Vudoo guns.


Again no criticism intended....enjoyed watching the video.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-26-2021, 09:42 AM
layer3guru
US Marines Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Posts: 
635
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Pump22

Hey thank you much absolutely appreciated. Because it has not been shot much neither of us knew what to expect.

I have not shot with a unertl much at all as a matter of fact that was only my second time. If anyone knew where I can get a screw for the unertl spring it would be awesome, I would like to give it to him as a gift for allowing me to shoot this thing.

I do think the close up of the camera makes the groups look larger than they are, but there is one thing we all know the shooter has to do his or her part After this I think more rounds need to be shot to lube the barrel as the last 5 shot always seem to be tighter if I did my part.

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 09-26-2021, 09:43 AM
ClarenceAnderson
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2014
Posts: 
630
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Very impressed by that bench, compared to the 2x6 bench tops at my club. What's it made of?

Last edited by ClarenceAnderson; 09-26-2021 at 09:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-26-2021, 09:45 AM
layer3guru
US Marines Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Posts: 
635
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Pump22

The cross hairs are slight turned also in the Unertl can they be adjusted?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-26-2021, 12:17 PM
ClarenceAnderson
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2014
Posts: 
630
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by layer3guru View Post
Pump22

The cross hairs are slight turned also in the Unertl can they be adjusted?
That's what the screws in the reticle ring are for--loosen them to rotate the ring until the crosswires are plumb.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-26-2021, 01:31 PM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
12,308
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceAnderson View Post
That's what the screws in the reticle ring are for--loosen them to rotate the ring until the crosswires are plumb.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-26-2021, 01:59 PM
FredJ_2008
US Air Force NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2008
Location: 
S. Tex
Posts: 
457
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
A lot of target motion. Wind was definitely affecting his group sizes. Not sure if he was lubing the lugs, but it looked like they were somewhat hard to close and open the bolt. I also agree, that lot selection is very import when comparing apples to apples.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-26-2021, 04:05 PM
Rick H.
National Guard Law Enforcement Officer NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2004
Location: 
Muskego, WI
Posts: 
905
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Just a few comments, I thought when the video started the M52 would be a really accurate rifle and I think it can be under the right circumstances. It didn't seem to me like the front rest was properly holding the fore stock. The sandbag needs to be adjusted for the stock otherwise you will have problems. Now not everyone can go chasing ammunition lots and I certainly don't, but some general rules should apply here. The barrel must be clean when any test starts. If you change ammunition you must clean and fowl the barrel with the ammunition you are going to shoot next. It is not a fair test to fowl the barrel with one brand of ammunition only to dry patch the barrel and shoot the next make batch. At a minimum I give a barrel 10 fowling rounds from a clean barrel before I shoot for accuracy. During the first 10 fowling rounds I will dial in the scope to about where I want it and perhaps a bit low from my aim point so I don't obliterate it.

Few people that I know can talk and shoot at the same time and expect great results. Talk or shoot, but not both. Good accuracy results from utmost concentration and squeezing the trigger to get off the best shot. It seemed to me like rounds were being sent down range much too fast. I can't speak to the other rifle that was tested, but it didn't show much promise to me. Once again though rounds seemed to be going down range in a big hurry because it had a box magazine that held 15 rounds. Chuck loading from the magazine on that rifle and load singly. You will automatically slow down doing that.

I would personally like to see this test run again, but only after both rifles have been dialed in a bit. And forget the old Federal Olympic ammunition. It's old, out dated and unobtanium. Stay with Tennex and Midas, but add RWS-50 to the mix. It was an interesting test, but it needs a re-do for sure.

Rick H.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-27-2021, 11:22 AM
52DH&R12

Join Date: 
Jul 2011
Location: 
Pembroke Va.
Posts: 
2,281
TPC Rating: 
100% (24)
I will go along with what Pump and Rick said. The 52D is a very accurate rifle. I have been shooting them for years.

I don't know anything about Unertl scopes other they look cool on a vintage rifle. I run Leupold 40X and Sightron 45Xs on mine. I use two 52Ds on a regular basis and have two more in the works.

I only watched part of your video, BTW you did a great job with it. I would do one myself, but I have more of a face for radio.

I have found the secret to getting a 52D to shoot well, is a great pillar bedding job, ammo selection and trigger management. I do not use a front rest, all my rifles are the factory marksman stock, therefore rounded on the bottom. Unless you use a BR plate, it will be very difficult to not have it cant from shot to shot. I use a very sturdy bi-pod mounted to the accessory rail on the OEM stock. I also use minimal contact with the rifle, none of mine seem to like being held.



When you get all the things it takes to shoot well together, you can expect the results to be something like this. 50 yards, no tuner, range under roof but not fully enclosed. Bull #3 was me not letting the rear bag do it's job. Mistakes always cost ya.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-27-2021, 11:24 AM
flangster

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
5,203
TPC Rating: 
100% (37)
Dang. That's one nice target.
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-27-2021, 03:00 PM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
12,308
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
I will go along with what Pump and Rick said. The 52D is a very accurate rifle. I have been shooting them for years.

I don't know anything about Unertl scopes other they look cool on a vintage rifle. I run Leupold 40X and Sightron 45Xs on mine. I use two 52Ds on a regular basis and have two more in the works.

I only watched part of your video, BTW you did a great job with it. I would do one myself, but I have more of a face for radio.

I have found the secret to getting a 52D to shoot well, is a great pillar bedding job, ammo selection and trigger management. I do not use a front rest, all my rifles are the factory marksman stock, therefore rounded on the bottom. Unless you use a BR plate, it will be very difficult to not have it cant from shot to shot. I use a very sturdy bi-pod mounted to the accessory rail on the OEM stock. I also use minimal contact with the rifle, none of mine seem to like being held.



When you get all the things it takes to shoot well together, you can expect the results to be something like this. 50 yards, no tuner, range under roof but not fully enclosed. Bull #3 was me not letting the rear bag do it's job. Mistakes always cost ya.

Excellent shooting....the old 52s can shoot in the right hands and with the right ammo and setup!

I never tried a bipod on my 52s, but I did do some experimenting with the rest setup.

52E with 15X Ultravarmint Unertl:


A few targets (not as impressive as 52D H&R 12's):




Think ammo makes little difference? Then consider this target...note the row of Midas + in the fourth row as compared to some of the SK in the 2nd row:


52D with 20X Target Unertl:

with USBR target of 245 (best is a 246)

Last edited by pump .22s; 09-27-2021 at 03:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-27-2021, 03:47 PM
Triggershoe
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Feb 2016
Location: 
Northeast Ohio
Posts: 
724
TPC Rating: 
100% (10)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
Just a few observations (no criticisms intended):

I have competed pretty extensively with the Winchester 52 B, D, & E using Unertl Scopes (15X & 20X) with a good deal of success. So based on that and much shooting at my own home range and having worked on the these guns and scopes...

- When shooting the Unertl with a loose recoil spring (I don't, I compress the spring so that it resets itself), one should reset the scope after each shot. When I have shot with a loose spring and forget to do that, I found it affects shot placement.

- Every gun, including the Winchester 52, is very much sensitive to ammo types and lots. I found it to be pretty amazing as to how much groups could vary from lot to lot, therefor I never competed until I had tested for the best ammo I could come up with for that particular gun. I found a lot of Tenex and Midas + that didn't shoot so well....while other lots shot exceptionally well.

- I found that when I shot a 52 for which I had good lot tested ammo, they were very competitive...even against many of the custom guns.

- Not every Winchester 52 or (pick the gun brand or type) is going to shoot well.

- I never had a Winchester 52 that shot as poorly as the one you tested if it had been properly tuned and was shooting lot tested ammo. Not a knock on the gun or on your shooting, but perhaps that gun needed ammo specifically matched to it.

- While the 52 may not be able, on the average, to keep pace with modern custom built guns, they were and are amazingly accurate guns for being a factory gun. I am not afraid to shoot them against Anschutz, Remington 40X, or Vudoo guns.


Again no criticism intended....enjoyed watching the video.




Pump--I wholeheartedly (is that a word??) agree with the last line in your post. But I DO think you were a little hard on the Guru, considering how much WIND he had to contend with. I didn't see any flags in use either. Me, I wouldn't have even attempted to test/shoot groups in that wind. I actually was quite surprised the groups were as good as they were in those conditions. Did you see that target backer moving? Perhaps it was the CAMERA/Tripod itself moving, not sure. But I am sure those conditions certainly were not optimal.

Guru---keep the vids coming. I, like Pump and so many others, very much enjoy viewing them.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-27-2021, 04:10 PM
FlysAlot's Avatar
FlysAlot

Moderator
Join Date: 
Jul 2003
Location: 
Stuck at FL410 :-(
Posts: 
13,106
TPC Rating: 
100% (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post

- Not every Winchester 52 ... is going to shoot well.
Now that's just blasphemy and on a Sunday too...

Everybody knows, TC Johnson designed it, Winchester built it and that's enough for me!

Dieter Anschutz couldn't carry TC's dirty socks! USA USA USA
__________________
“Despotic power is always accompanied by corruption of morality.”
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-27-2021, 04:11 PM
FlysAlot's Avatar
FlysAlot

Moderator
Join Date: 
Jul 2003
Location: 
Stuck at FL410 :-(
Posts: 
13,106
TPC Rating: 
100% (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
...The 52D is a very accurate rifle.

Clearly a man of class and taste...
__________________
“Despotic power is always accompanied by corruption of morality.”
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x