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  #16  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:30 AM
crankythunder

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dear war machine



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First off, the accuracy that you are going to get will be a touch over a quarter inch groups at 25 yards and about three quarters inch at 50 yards. At least that is the accuracy that I get with all my pistols and it seams that the limiting factor in my case is the loose nut on the trigger. In other words, all the quality pistols out there from the ruger to the buckmark to the pardini all deliver about the same accuracy using subsonic ammunition.


But do not take my word for it, check out Gil Hebard who in the book "A Pistol Shooters Treasury" that when he tested all the available 22 lr pistols at the time, could not discern a difference in relative accuracy between all the pistols tested. He went on to say that any measured accuracy differences were more likely the result of individual models as opposed to a inherent accuracy between manufacturer.



Now with that being said, I own a couple high quality 22LR handguns, Pardini SP bullseye edition, a FWB O93, a couple SW 41's, a pardini K22, and a couple of SW revolvers. I have also had the opportunity to shoot just about every available high quality 22 LR pistol, the walthers, the benellis, the Hammerlis, etc. The pistol that I shoot the best, as proven by my weekly bullseye pistol scores, is the Pardini SP Bullseye edition. Hands down. It is simply a awesome pistol with which I have had zero alibi's, knock on wood.


Interestingly, when I am shooting for fun, plinking, etc, I invariably reach for the model 41's that I own. Not sure if I know why but I think it has something to do with the 10 and 12 round magazines, the magazine in the pistol grip, and the fact that they have easy change barrels so it is easy to switch from a 5 inch iron sight to a 7 inch iron sight to a red dot by simply changing the barrel out.


Don't get me wrong, the Pardini and the FWB are twice the handgun of the model 41 and I enjoy shooting them as well but I seam to go for the 41 when the shooting is for fun and not competition.


As for what you should get, I would recommend either the Pardini SP or the SW model 41. Hard for me to choose which one I like better.


Regards,

Cranky
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  #17  
Old 07-16-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Machine View Post
I've been bitten by the urge to have one truly phenomenal 22LR handgun in my safe. I don't know if this makes sense but I have a Shadow 2 and it's one of those guns that I was beyond happy to have spent money on after shooting it; it is really amazing.

My only 22 handgun is the CZ Kadet that I bought off a member here a long time ago. It's a great gun and a decent plinker but it's not like mind blowingly accurate. At least not with any of the various ammo I've tried it with yet.

I was looking at the Ruger Mk4 series of guns and they seem ok but nothing like crazy.

Is $1200-ish enough to get into like crazy high quality 22 pistol level or would I have to go higher? What kind of accuracy would I really get at that level or is it just wasting money (i.e. is $1200 not enough to get really out of this world accuracy?)

What should I be looking at? S&W 41? Volquartsen? A olympic pistol?

im not sure what your endgame is other than an expensive and maybe accurate toy?

If you dont konw what you want other than that, can you do the next step and figure out if you will do any competition? Do you just want bragging rights?

I can see you wanting accurate, but if i look at why? I also look at the law of diminishing returns. How much more $$ will you spend to eek out 1/8" more accuracy if you can?

then there is the person behind the gun. If you cant hit a barn with the moon then i dont see why, but its also your money too.

You may want to just look at what accuracy you can get for your 1200. And then look at whats outside of that range and see if the price difference is worth it.

to me, unless i was competition with that 1200 toy, i would just get something good enough. I dont do much shooting now anyway so that 1200 can go to part of my travels.

As you have seen there are some nice shooters for less money, but if you have other ideas or reasons why, go for it. Its your money as mentioned.

also, if you do want to shoot competition, why not start off with something like a Ruger? Get into the sport and see if you like it or not. IF you dont care for the competition part, at least you wont have sunk alot of $$$ into a toy and you can always take it out and use as a shooter.
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  #18  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:35 PM
War_Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangbang View Post
im not sure what your endgame is other than an expensive and maybe accurate toy?

If you dont konw what you want other than that, can you do the next step and figure out if you will do any competition? Do you just want bragging rights?

I can see you wanting accurate, but if i look at why? I also look at the law of diminishing returns. How much more $$ will you spend to eek out 1/8" more accuracy if you can?

then there is the person behind the gun. If you cant hit a barn with the moon then i dont see why, but its also your money too.

You may want to just look at what accuracy you can get for your 1200. And then look at whats outside of that range and see if the price difference is worth it.

to me, unless i was competition with that 1200 toy, i would just get something good enough. I dont do much shooting now anyway so that 1200 can go to part of my travels.

As you have seen there are some nice shooters for less money, but if you have other ideas or reasons why, go for it. Its your money as mentioned.

also, if you do want to shoot competition, why not start off with something like a Ruger? Get into the sport and see if you like it or not. IF you dont care for the competition part, at least you wont have sunk alot of $$$ into a toy and you can always take it out and use as a shooter.
I don't even know what kind of competitions I would shoot with a 22 pistol or what is out there locally.

Put simply the only 22 handgun I have now is a CZ Kadet and I am not happy with the accuracy. I want to be able to make 2" at 25 yards. If I can do that for less than $1200 great. If I need to spend more my question is how much more because if it's $1400 cool I'm on board sign me up. I fit's $3000 then ehhh I'll get as good as I can get with $1200.

I am keenly aware that there is a law of diminishing returns. I have a CZ Shadow 2 in 9mm and it was $1200 and to me worth every penny but it's probably not worth it to most people and that's actually the inspiration for this post. Most people can get a Walther PPQ or CZ P10 and still get an acceptable level of accuracy but buying the Shadow 2 I don't regret it at all, it feels solid, it shoots amazing, it is better than any 9mm I've shot but for most people it's probably excessive.
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  #19  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:54 PM
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One of the regulars at my gun club recently picked up a new Ruger Mark IV Hunter for $599. He added a volquartsen trigger group, and a Vortex red dot. He's got just under $1000 in it now. The gun shoots simply amazing 1/4" groups at 15 yards. Even out to 100 meters, it shoots lights out.
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  #20  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:31 AM
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The S&W Model 41 is hard to beat.

Without knowing what the intended purpose is and assuming the pistol is for all around shooting I would go with the 41.

It is well balanced, comes apart easily, has parts and mags that are readily available, and isnít outrageously expensive.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:45 AM
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I have the Valqruarsten Mamba I paid $1400 for it .To me it's an extremely accurate pistol with a great trigger.
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  #22  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:58 PM
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I'm guessing every factory browning buckmark, s&w victory and ruger mkIV would be capable of shooting under 2" at 25 yards.

The rugers need trigger work but real simple to do with the volquarsten kits and then have very decent gun without a lot of cost.


If you want a nicer gun than ones listed above without going over $1200 and one that will keep or appreciate in value - I'd look for s&w41.

Last edited by jm10/22; 07-17-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:15 PM
redlightrich

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Hello War Machine. Just a small FYI, you can mod your CZ Kadet trigger, and get it near or below 2# and very crisp. I have one that I converted to SA, and it rivals any of my 1911 triggers. I bring up the trigger because after the barrel is known good, the trigger certainly can affect how accurate you can be with the gun.

Since this mod ( and it cost me near 100 dollars and some elbow grease, I have no gripes with the accuracy of my Kadet.
Please note, I have many good quality .22s including a model 41. Yes the 41 is a touch more accurate, but sometimes, I just like the CZ better.

It just might be worth looking into

Rich
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2019, 11:30 PM
wayne38
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$1200 Handgun

War Machine,
I want to warn you about AndyD. He knows what he is talking about and gives sound advice but but he will bankrupt you. I used to have tons of money and a nice collection of .22 LR pistols and now I have a large collection of good pistols and a lot less money. $ 1200 won't make the down payment on a Korth but you will never shoot a sweeter or more accurate revolver in your life. Willie Korth's motto was"I make the best handguns in the world and the most expensive."

The world record at 25 meters was set by Eric Bujung of Austria in 1983 using a Hammerli 208 (584/600) and it has never been broken.

Good luck in your search. But remember that quality remains after the price is forgotten and I find this to be true.


wayne38
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:40 AM
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That is the problem with the OPís question.

He did give decent parameters at $1200 so that is why I picked the S&W Model 41.

My first choice would always be a NIB Browning Medalist since I think they are the best looking 22 production pistol ever made and they shoot better than I can. The problem is that they havenít been in production since 1974/1975 so parts and magazines are getting scarce. There are better pistols but mine more reliable and better looking.

When you get down to it, the pistol should be D&T for a rail so you can mount optics and it should be in current production so you can get parts.

That is why, for the price range given, the S&W is a good option.
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2019, 12:43 AM
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[quote I'd like 2" at 25 yards if that's doable. I know that means match grade ammo and not using bulk pack stuff ]

2" at 25 yards? Very doable. Try a small fraction of an inch at 25 yards/arm rested here. Wrists forward were free so it still took sight alignment and trigger control.
And it is a MkII with a Toyota trigger job
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2019, 02:55 PM
Hanshi
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$1200 and 2" groups at 25 yds. I've owned and still own S&W .22LR revolvers that will do better than that; Colts as well. My Ruger MKI bull barrel will do it and my Victor will beat that to he__. My little Colt Woodsman Sport will deliver at least that or better. Consider the M41 S&W, but I've never owned one.
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