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Old 01-12-2017, 03:16 PM
rjtmac
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Not meant to start an online war ... Just a sincere question



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I am not a TROLL trying to start a back and forth heated dialog ... I mean no disrespect to anyone in asking about this subject ... I just want some clarification.

I own several .22 rifles and pistols. I do causal fun target shooting and on occasion set up the bench, the rests and targets just to see what the gun, the ammo and I can do together.

Up front - I do not do any serious target "group" shooting. My group worries are how many rounds can I put into a rabbit, skunk, racoon or the few and far between coyotes that breach the yard boundaries and steal food from our cats and dogs. We also hunt rabbits around here specifically because they are a nuisance and crop destructive.

That being said I have always wanted to ask a question about the .22 rifle and accuracy and have something explained for me.

The shortcomings of .22 ammo is a widely known and discussed topic on may gun forums. Inconsistencies of load, bullet weights, shapes and just plain every day quality control over the massive amount of .22 ammo that is produced are common discussion topics. This is not to say there are general major flaws with the ammo just what seems to be a fairly large percentage of variance from cartridge to cartridge in any given brick.

From what one reads and sees as far as the "Groups" produced at all different distances is just a throw it at the wall and see what sticks kinda thing. This particular gun of mine shoots better with "XXXX" ammo and my other gun just like it does better with "YYYY" ammo. The combinations of ammo and guns is endless of what works better to produce the "Ultimate" group.

From what I can gather the "neophyte" shooter all the way to the "Expert" is just plain all out dependent on the ammo he buys to acquire these "Ultimate" groups.

I do not mean the following in any disparaging or disrespectful way. I see posts all the time from guys who have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on high dollar guns, new barrels, Triggers, 3rd party internals for the actions, expensive stocks, special sight sets and High Dollar Scopes. My question is why ?

You spend all of this money and time to build the ultimate "Shooting Tool" only to turn around a have to use ammo, no matter the cost or brand, that has a fairly significant chance of being inherently faulty because of the nature of it's manufacturing. It is .22 Rimfire ammo.

Don't get me wrong here. I love to shoot my .22's. I love shooting them along with my kids and grand kids who all have their own .22's.

My thought is that if I am going to sink hundreds of dollars in an accurate weapon I am going to invest in something I have more control over all aspects of my endeavor. If my goal is trying to shoot as consistent of a small tight group spread of hits as I can, I want control over the "Delivery Build" (weapon) and the "Payload" which is to be delivered (ammo).

I can do this with 2 controls:
1) by loading my own ammunition or having a skilled loader do it for me
2) building the best gun I can with the $$$$ I have available for the task

For me, this would be the only way I could justify in my mind the monetary outlay for building a "Target" gun for trying to achieve maximum accuracy.

So my Question:
Can I get some insight on the question of why use a .22 rifle to try and achieve building the most accurate target rifle you can ?

Last edited by rjtmac; 01-12-2017 at 03:31 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:27 PM
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Al the Infidel
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There's some distributors that will send you various test batches of ammo and when you find the best shooting in your gun you can order a bunch of it.

Question to a question-why do some strive to be the best at what they do best? Its human nature to see whose the best at everything we do and variables are just part of it. Its not all about conditions or ammo, but often the contestant, shooter, that makes the final difference. Be the best you can be while you can before life kicks you in the heiny.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:34 PM
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Al's hit it on the head. We all like challenges! When we were considerably younger...team sports were king. Now that we're older and not into team sports we have just ourselves to impress. So it's for the fun of it. When it ceases being fun then you go on to something else.

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Old 01-12-2017, 03:36 PM
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If you shop for your ammo at Walmart or academy the gun may not make a difference. I like you am not a serious target shooter(although I do enjoy shoot for groups). I mainly use sk std+ plus and have 3 rifles that will shoot in the .3's (50yards)more often than not....that's pretty accurate. I do keep some other brands and grades of ammo on hand from base practice ammo to stuff that's $20 a box, I just don't use it often.
I myself probably can't do it but there are many that post here that can embarrass most people shooting whatever they want at 100 yards with their 22's.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:39 PM
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There are different strokes for different folks.

Some Benchrest shooters go all out for small groups.
For hunters, Minute of Vermin, usually is good enough.
There are "Plinkers" who like to bounce cans around.

Rimfire shooting covers such a wide variety of shooting disciplines that one will probably never master them all.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:30 PM
HUSHKABOOM
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Most of us likely fall into the middle. Pay higher price for a better quality rifle but not the best or most expensive then test with good ammo that falls in the middle on price. Shoot it and hope for good groups. Do some tuning and testing as needed.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:35 PM
jon p
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serious PLINKER

if I hit what I am aiming at I am happy. I have learned in 55 years of .22 shooting that most ammo is JUST FINE FOR MOST USES. I know there are the people that strive for total perfection and that is GREAT. just not me.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:41 PM
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Simple answer, because we can....
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:47 PM
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If I go to the expense and trouble to build or buy a rifle that I know will shoot extremely well, like my recent Kidd build, then I'm only limited in accuracy by the ammo I choose. Cheap ammo like Remington golden bullets will be above average accurate (when they actually go off) and Ely match will be extremely accurate. A cheaper rifle is usually limited in accuracy regardless of the ammo fired through it. As a loose example, you can drive a Ferrari at 30 mph but can't drive a Yugo at 250 mph.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:59 PM
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I am a 68 year old disabled Vet.. ALL my guns and ALL my ammo are more accurate than I am. I shoot for fun only.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtmac View Post
You spend all of this money and time to build the ultimate "Shooting Tool" only to turn around a have to use ammo, no matter the cost or brand, that has a fairly significant chance of being inherently faulty because of the nature of it's manufacturing.

There is nothing inherently faulty with good quality rimfire ammo.

I can do this with 2 controls:
1) by loading my own ammunition or having a skilled loader do it for me
2) building the best gun I can with the $$$$ I have available for the task

For me, this would be the only way I could justify in my mind the monetary outlay for building a "Target" gun for trying to achieve maximum accuracy.

Yes, you CAN load your own .22 rimfire ammo, as there are a few kits that allow you do roll your own, but the accuracy of your home-spun ammo won't be all that great, and all the time it takes you do do that could be better spent practicing your shooting techniques.

Personally, if I want accurate .22 ammo, I don't shoot anything made in the U.S.A. I will use Eley, RWS or Lapua ammo, mostly the English stuff. In over 30 years of using it, not once have I had any failures to fire or blown rims or defective ammo from the factory.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:09 PM
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Working at a gun store has a few benefits. One is that I get to hear all of the assumsions that quite a few people make about firearms and ammunition. One of the biggest is that all 22LR (long rifle, not long range) is created equal. They accuse us of "price gouging" when we had RWS Rifle Match on the shelf priced at around $100 a brick during the ammo shortage a couple of years ago. 'Cause they could buy a brick last year down at Walmart for $12. isn't all 22 the same?
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:11 PM
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I've never experienced problems of any kind, not even a dud round while shooting CCI ammo. It is also extremely accurate in most of my 10/22's
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:26 PM
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Think Al pretty much nailed it for a lot of folks, but the answer for others, myself included, is because its FUN!

You won't find any pics of my misadventures w/Green Monsters here or elsewhere, but it doesn't mean I don't have fun trying to shoot a good score on one. I have fun anytime shooting. The results are not always pleasing, seldom worthy of refrigerator fame for that matter, but we learn by doing mostly. Doping correctly is difficult; sound technique takes both practice and patience. No question that good coaching can help as well.

Forums like this one help to give us a leg up & frequent smiles, sometimes outright laughs.

FWIW, I've also got this silly thing about sometimes shooting paint ball's off-hand off of wooden golf T's stuck in a wooden sawhorse's top, but can't do that at any of the ranges I have access to. That's a fish camp activity, like digging for worms w/the dog that in it's heart KNOWS they are related to pasta noodles.

If its not in your heart or nature, its not likely to make much sense.

Your question is a good one. I can only answer honestly for myself.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtmac View Post
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Can I get some insight on the question of why use a .22 rifle to try and achieve building the most accurate target rifle you can ?
Whether centerfire or rimfire a high degree of component (rifle parts) quality along with assembly skill is required to have an accurate rifle. Even then you're only halfway. It takes consistent ammo that happens to "like" that rifle to get exceptional accuracy.
I don't think everyone should go to the trouble and expense to try to achieve a high level of accuracy, especially if they don't have the intrinsic values for the type of gun you describe. But I personally have spent a bunch of money trying to do so.

Last edited by cowboy4; 01-12-2017 at 05:50 PM.
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