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  #46  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:41 PM
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My six-year-old Win7 Gateway laptop PC works just fine. Compressed air can clean out the ducts and the fan.

It is time to upgrade to Win10 soon as MS support to Win7 is ending in Jan.

Have two re-furbed Win7 desktops that work fine - both for under $200: one for me, one for my wife. Am wrestling with spending the bucks for Win10, or just getting another refurb'd computer with Win 10 (close to the same price).

I'm not a MAC guy.

Am considering two more rebuilt Win10 machines to replace my and my wife's 'puters,just to keep up with security. Then again, we've got two great XP machines that could do well with Win10. We'd need to do some un-installs for MS Office and then re-install, which is is pain but would work. For the price of a refurb'd PC.

My biggest hang-up is de-activating and then re-installing Office. Should I find an easy way to do that, then my XP machines will get Win10 with a re-install on MS Office.

We don't need the computing power I required when I was working, and we don't do video games (unless FreeCell counts).

My internet usage is capped, so a computer that always calls out to the internet is a problem (e.g. Chromebook), not to mention security...

So I'm still borderline upgrading from Win7 to Win10 or just getting a new/rebuilt system with all the belles and whistles. Or sticking with Win7 (and XP and DOS6.0). Yup, even 3.1!

Did I mention CP/M???

As long as connection to the internet or my personal LAN isn't needed, even the CP/M machines are okay. Just need to use sneaker-net with 5" floppies...

And yes, I can do that...
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  #47  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:20 PM
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Here's what I typically saw in 23 yrs working at a semiconductor mfg facility. They make every electronic component you find in a pc, including high rel military components (which aren't available to the public). Cut from the Dell web site where someone asked the difference between one their consumer and business laptops...

There is no difference to the business version - it's just warranty and software side. It's the same device.
No, its not. At least with HP its not. Yea, its (mostly) the same chips, but the commercial grade system is better built, with better cooling, no (or fewer) "shortcuts", and actually very often slightly LOWER performance in order to not push the chips so hard and generate so much heat. Hence an HP Pavilion (Consumer grade) may be $400 with a faster processor and more memory than a $1K Commercial model - and you'd have to step up to $1,200 or more to get the same processor/memory specs as the $400 Pavilion. And its COMPLETELY worth it - I've junked dozens of Consumer grade machines that were between 3 and 5 years old, whereas most Commercial grade systems are still going well after 10.

You get what you pay for.

If you take apart a consumer grade vs commercial grade machine - desktop or laptop - the difference become obvious immediately.
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  #48  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RJF22553 View Post
Did I mention CP/M???

As long as connection to the internet or my personal LAN isn't needed, even the CP/M machines are okay. Just need to use sneaker-net with 5" floppies...

And yes, I can do that...
Yep - CP/M is just fine - but who needs those mamby-pamby 5 inch floppies?!? Go big or go home, 8 inchers is where its at! Although, I'm thinking of actually going with flash cards on my IMSAI.
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  #49  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:50 PM
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If you take apart a consumer grade vs commercial grade machine - desktop or laptop - the difference become obvious immediately.
What he said. This is very true.

Also, just because Microsoft is ending support for Win 7 in January is not a good reason to stop using it; not in my mind. In fact I see it as an advantage, as Win 10 seems to be constantly updating, with almost no way to stop it from doing so.

Just to be clear, nothing is going to stop working when Microsoft stops support for Win 7. Some people seem to be under the impression that they won't be able to use their computer or certain software after this date. This is not true.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2019, 09:13 AM
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Think Linux, it's free!!!!!
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  #51  
Old 11-29-2019, 04:01 PM
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Think Linux, it's free!!!!!
My "next" system will probably be Linux (again). I ran Linux for several years, but got tired of doing my own support, so switched to Mac - it was pretty much the same thing only somebody else supported it. This was probably 20 years ago or so.

But - Apple and Microsoft's race to the bottom, decontenting and making computers more like already crippled "devices" is getting on my nerves. Apple breaks everything with every new - and un-needed - OS update. Microsoft is Microsoft, only uglier. Win 10 is just ugly, and it takes a LOT of tweaking to make it usable and safe(er). M$ is also NOT a Unix type OS, which is essential to me.

Linux has "mostly" gotten far better, although there are still some issues - certain VPNs don't work, and nobody's interested in fixing them, and I don't have the knowledge to do it myself.
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  #52  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
No, its not. At least with HP its not. Yea, its (mostly) the same chips, but the commercial grade system is better built, with better cooling, no (or fewer) "shortcuts", and actually very often slightly LOWER performance in order to not push the chips so hard and generate so much heat. Hence an HP Pavilion (Consumer grade) may be $400 with a faster processor and more memory than a $1K Commercial model - and you'd have to step up to $1,200 or more to get the same processor/memory specs as the $400 Pavilion. And its COMPLETELY worth it - I've junked dozens of Consumer grade machines that were between 3 and 5 years old, whereas most Commercial grade systems are still going well after 10.

You get what you pay for.

If you take apart a consumer grade vs commercial grade machine - desktop or laptop - the difference become obvious immediately.
Yikes! I couldn't find anything on HPs web site that identified the differences in their PCs, but didn't spend a lot of time searching either. Regardless, I'd check any mfg to see what the differences are before buying. I'd be "sad" if paying more to get a so called commercial pc if all they did was extend the warranty and change software for business apps. I've also sent 100s of desktops to surplus and no large corp I've heard of has kept them longer than 2+yrs...these companies have IT depts and that's stretching it. By the time most PCs are 10ys old their parts are long time scattered and recycled into boat anchors.

When did "commercial" PCs start being built that are slower and less powerful than "consumer" PCs? Sounds like urban legend created by PC mfgs to me. I retired from the industry in 2015 and up until that time business PCs were always at the cutting edge of technology, faster and more powerful than any typical PC used at home.

Anyway, I'm not recommending Dell as it's been the least reliable of any other and my family Dells have been no better. I checked the build date: 7/2017, purchase date 9/2017, warranty expired 9/2018 so I was incorrect earlier about it being 3 yrs old. HD and charger were replaced a few months ago. It still has operating glitches and no tech has been able to pin point it. Dell can't either. This was a $550 street price laptop in 2017, not a bottom feeder.

Last edited by Plinkhead; 01-02-2020 at 10:01 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #53  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:23 PM
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I have a laptop that is about 4 years old and it is really making some wierd sounds when it runs. I suspect it is either the hard drive or the cooling fan that is the source of the sounds. I figure it is time to step up and replace this laptop (it is an HP). I haven't started looking yet, but I thought pick the collective brains of Rimfire Central for suggestions, what to look for, what to avoid, what chips, memory, etc. I am looking at a budget of about $600-700. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated!!! Please point me in the right direction.
My first thought is what shape would you be if it died right now. Does it have stuff on it you don't want to lose? Do you have backup(s) of your data?

If you do, great, if you don't, better get that done. Backblaze works for me.

An image backup to an usb harddrive would be pretty cool also. If you had that and understood how to do it, replacing a drive would be a piece of pie. You can check out that fan while you are at it.

Is the machine working for you othewise? Is it fast enough? Does it have Win 10 on it? What tasks do you use it for? Do you just want a new one?
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  #54  
Old 11-30-2019, 08:07 PM
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...I've also sent 100s of desktops to surplus and no large corp I've heard of has kept them longer than 2+yrs...these companies have IT depts and that's stretching it. By the time most PCs are 10ys old their parts are long time scattered and recycled into boat anchors.

When did "commercial" PCs start being built that are slower and less powerful than "consumer" PCs? Sounds like urban legend created by PC mfgs to me. I retired from the industry in 2015 and up until that time business PCs were always at the cutting edge of technology, faster and more powerful than any typical PC used at home.
A bit of a clarification on the latter. Yes, you're right - you can get a commercial system that outstrips anything in the consumer realm - Goddess knows I bought enough of them - one word: "Solidworks". But a higher end consumer machine often has better specs on the surface of it all (faster processor, more memory) than a lower to mid range commercial system. The consumer machine will be far less money, but I'd take the "lesser performance" commercial variety as such consumer machines (especially laptops) grow to be very unreliable after just a couple of years or so. OTOH, I have an older HP commercial grade laptop that is just FINE, runs windows 7 quite nicely.

I retired from IT just 2 years after you did (2017), we were "nominally" on a 3 year replacement cycle (except the SolidWorks guys, and those crunching HUGE datasets) - but in reality, few bothered to replace that quickly. My Mac was 9 years old when I left, I would have replaced it in another year or two, but as it was a high end Mac Pro to start with, I didn't feel the need. Upgrading is a PITA, and lots of people avoid as much as possible - including me!
I have a Mac mini here at home, that is about 8 years old - I really want to get at least 10 out of it. At my feet is an old HP Pavilion "tower", that Goddess only knows how old it is, inherited from my in-laws, runs win 7, and is doing fine even though it is a consumer grade system. *shrug*
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  #55  
Old 11-30-2019, 08:51 PM
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Yikes! I couldn't find anything on HPs web site that identified the differences in their PCs
To help you out, the HP Elitebooks are their business class (referred to as "commercial" here) computers and are their highest-quality machines.
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  #56  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:29 PM
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Let me share my experience with Toshiba. I bought a high end Toshiba laptop. It had several issues when new. I then discovered that the "1 year warranty" was a one year service plan, where they'd fix their mistakes if I paid $45 + shipping both ways.

Sorry, to me a warranty means if your product has issues during the warranty period, the manufacturer fixes it for free. Period.

I followed one of the issues on the Toshiba users forum for over two years with no luck to see if Toshiba ever came up with a fix. At least I did until Toshiba closed down the forum, probably because of the hundreds of complaints.

After three years of lousy wifi and unreliable video, the display died, so I recycled it.

I'll never spend a single dollar for any Toshiba product ever again.
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  #57  
Old 12-02-2019, 09:59 AM
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I bought a new HP and loaded LINUX Mint into it and haven't looked back. Download Libre office and you're set.
That's it for me. I have Ubuntu and LibreOffice. All for Free!
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  #58  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:49 AM
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That's it for me. I have Ubuntu and LibreOffice. All for Free!
Great minds think alike.
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  #59  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:43 AM
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Funny that Sub sailor hasn't commented once since he started this.
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  #60  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:33 PM
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Maybe he gleaned the info he needed and went about his business.
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