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I think Vudoo is overpriced for what you get.

18K views 144 replies 35 participants last post by  wwace 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Barreled action is $1770 (includes one mag), DBM is $200, magazines are $39.95 each (three for $99).

MB
For $1500, you can buy a good used fully loaded custom benchrest gun with tuner that will shoot way better. My latest Suhl 150 Shilen ratchet 4 groove barrel smithed by Don Blue was about that price and it came with a Japan Tasco 36x scope. My first Suhl won't touch it. My point is why a Vudoo when you can buy way more accurate for less?
 
#44 · (Edited)
I have both a Vudoo and a Joe Chacon special build off a Ruger action. Let me just start by saying that I am not a good enough shooter to answer the question of which is the more accurate rifle -- regardless of price. I get that it is fun to debate these things, how many angels can hula on the head of a firing pin and all that. But I don't think we'll get to the bottom of the A vs. B question based on the data that has been presented.

I write this because I don't see how the performance of Rifle A shot with a particular brand and lot of ammo by Shooter A can be compared to the performance of Rifle B shot with a different brand and lot of ammo shot by Shooter B on a different day, in a different state etc. Or, rather, they can be compared as they have been above, but the comparison doesn't tell you much.

Similarly, I don't know what to do with statements like "a rifle that costs X should perform to standard Y." We all know that the rifle is just one part of the equation -- and I have taken the walk of shame down to the 50 yard line enough times to have this fact proven to me. Often.

Who knows how many shooters here could consistently produce .1's at 50 yards -- even if they had their choice of any rifle? I know I could not, although some of you all might. But as a thought experiment, we could set it up this way: The way to test whether spending money of amount X is enough to be the best shooter, is to see whether the shooters who win competitions are the most wealthy shooters. I suspect that it is the shooters who shoot the most who are the best shooters, rather than the dentists with the most expensive gear. Or put another way, the fact that ILIKE1022 got a good deal here on a custom build that shoots well doesn't prove the proposition that every rifle that costs more will shoot better. BTW, I'm green with envy over those targets in the .1's. It's one of the reasons I keep pulling the trigger. Maybe I will get there eventually.

Also, if I had shot a collection of targets like BillOH, you can bet I'd be pretty difficult to be around. ;) I'd be crowing about it so much I'd be even more insufferable than I already am. Heck I shot five targets in the .2's and .3's with my Vudoo and stopped shooting for the day.



[Edit, due to the timing of the posts, I'm going to assume that ILIKE's generous comment in the next post is about RABID's targets in the post just above mine, not about my modest string of fire in this post]. :)
 
#48 ·
Also, if I had shot a collection of targets like BillOH, you can bet I'd be pretty difficult to be around. ;)
I try to be humble. I'm just a middle of the pack shooter in the crowd I shoot with.

I only post bragging groups when I have at least six 5 shot groups on the same paper. ;)
 

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#46 ·
Gentlemen please stop all the wasteful back and forth on target comparisons,they really mean very little unless shot in competition.

I truly believe that in todays market that MB's rifles are a competitive specific built rifle that would compete in PRS styles competitions.,As it stands it would probably not win or even place in the top 10 in a good ARA match with quality shooters IMO.I was lucky enough to have Don Blue and Joey Cormier help me with the build of "Buster Blue" apply named after the gunsmith and my recently deceased dog.

This constant haggling over whose group means very little till a rifle is actually shot in competition.The enlosed pic is of a target (slightly stained and old like me) I shot with B.B..It is a 2400 out of a possible 2500 shot outdoors in competition in an ARA match,before I sold the rifle to ILIKE1022,for a well below market price I might add as I needed money for other things I won't go into.

I think for the money involved it is possible to have a competitive specific built rifle for any competition for a reasonable price between $1500 and $2500.

The new Bergara .22 could be a possible contender (and market changer) once it has been introduced moreso into this market.The only true advantage I see to those on RFBR with a magazine fed action is the availibilty to fire off shots at a fairly rapid pace when presented conditions are good.Otherwise I see no reason for a RFBR shooter to have the need for a mag fed rifle.

I would like to see how MB'S currently produced rifle or any future specific built rifle woulld compete in a current ARA/IR50/50 match.

I'm not knocking his well produced action/rifle for what it is designed for BTW

This has all been a great conversation for some here and maybe I should have just been silent as I'm a nobody compared to the shooters I usually compete with on a routine basis,but I do show up and shoot regardless as I enjoy the camaraderie and getting out of the house on occasions:)

Just sayin:)
 

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#54 · (Edited)
Is it just me? Or is this really just a "I want to brag on my gun" thread? :)

Maybe I have it wrong, ILIKE1022 but I don't see you expressing much interest in learning about VGW's firearms. Seems you really just want to talk about how great your Suhl is. No denying it and you can perform well but I kinda sorta had the idea you were interested in learning about the V22, not showing off your Suhl. Or did I miss it?
 
#55 ·
ILIKE1022 Not to give you a hard time but I noticed for years now you show these unbelievable 5 shot groups, the problem I have is they are always a singular target that appears to be cherry picked. If you had multiple targets with this type of grouping that would be a lot more impressive .We are all in titled to like any rifles we want as a Vudoo owner I can tell you 1st hand that they have extremely good accuracy and are easy to shoot well .They also make great practice rifles that mimic their larger counterparts. I don't think any Vudoo's were ever made to be strictly for bench shooting they are more versatile than that. I almost always shoot mine off a bipod with great results This kind of reminds me of the argument why would somebody buy a Ferrari when you could buy a Subaru and make it faster and handle better.:rolleyes:
 
#60 ·
I'm very happy to see that decades after Remington and Winchester failed to better the Anschutz and Walther and surrendered the high quality rimfire market to the Germans a new rifle has come along. For those who wanted to compete with American equipment can finally have a brand to go to. It would have been much more satisfying if it started with a clean sheet of paper rather than modifying a decades old design. Innovation counts much more than just production improvement. We can't live off our grandfathers' effort forever.
 
#64 ·
No truer words my friend and I'm glad you posted. As this unfolds, please bear in mind, Vudoo is barely three years old and the current V-22 was a place to start. ;)

MB
 
#61 ·
I can cherry pic groups as well, just look at the first one but I’ll include the entire 6 groups of 5 shots at 50 yards using a rear bag and Atlus bipod. All shot with my CZ 457 with a tuner. I’ll also add the last 6 five shot group I shot with it before putting a Lilja barrel on it and when the time comes I will be buying a Vudoo.
 

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#62 ·
And here is the first shots through the new Lilja barrel. It’s at the moment getting bedded and have no doubt it will help as will getting more rounds down the barrel. These were all shot without a tuner and I have no doubt the tuner will tighten them up some but with that said I’ll still be getting a Vudoo as soon as I have the funds. For I have seen them shot and I have shot others Vudoo’s. There’s not very many rimfire rifles out there that can do what a Vudoo does day in and day out.
 

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#63 ·
Drglock - I've seen photos of your 457 over on the Hide, and I must say, I'm a bit envious, even though I've got a couple of 457s with nice walnut stocks & Shilen select match ratchet rifled bbls that shoot pretty good. I wouldn't have gone to the expense & trouble of chambering & fitting the Shilens to these rifles if I weren't so impressed with the new 457 actions & triggers, because over the past four years, I'd built myself a fine repeater on a Stiller 2500XR, then had two of my CMP 40X & XB rifles converted into repeaters to use the V-22 magazines, and then barreled them with Benchmark, Krieger, & Lilja titebore barrels (did both Krieger & Lilja bbls for the 40XB to compare them). After the V-22 came to market, I sold the 40X/Benchmark to fund the purchase of a 2nd V-22 after barreling a V-22 action with another Krieger. As much as I enjoyed shooting the 40X repeaters in .22RF PRS-style matches, there was no doubt that the V-22s ran smoother & were 100% reliable. I don't know that I can shoot good enough to demonstrate that my V-22s are consistently more accurate than the remaining 40XB, but I'm happy enough with them that I don't really worry about it.

This is a rather long-winded, round-about way of saying that I totally understand why you're looking to purchase a V-22, even though you're obviously pleased with your CZ. Anyone who's at all interested in shooting the NRL22 or other similar PRS-style 22RF matches can see the value & advantages of the V-22. If I were more interested in getting into the BR side of rimfire competition, I'd be interested in hearing what Mike B. has to say about whether he believes the V-22 needs modifications to be more competitive in BR shooting or not. I've not tested anything more expensive than Eley Match in mine, although the one I sent to the Lapua Test Center didn't shoot Midas + any better than it did a very good lot of Center-X. But as there are no RF BR matches that I'm aware of in western or central Kansas, I guess I'll just continue to enjoy the practical matches with the V-22s.
 
#67 ·
Drglock - I've seen photos of your 457 over on the Hide, and I must say, I'm a bit envious, even though I've got a couple of 457s with nice walnut stocks & Shilen select match ratchet rifled bbls that shoot pretty good. I wouldn't have gone to the expense & trouble of chambering & fitting the Shilens to these rifles if I weren't so impressed with the new 457 actions & triggers, because over the past four years, I'd built myself a fine repeater on a Stiller 2500XR, then had two of my CMP 40X & XB rifles converted into repeaters to use the V-22 magazines, and then barreled them with Benchmark, Krieger, & Lilja titebore barrels (did both Krieger & Lilja bbls for the 40XB to compare them). After the V-22 came to market, I sold the 40X/Benchmark to fund the purchase of a 2nd V-22 after barreling a V-22 action with another Krieger. As much as I enjoyed shooting the 40X repeaters in .22RF PRS-style matches, there was no doubt that the V-22s ran smoother & were 100% reliable. I don't know that I can shoot good enough to demonstrate that my V-22s are consistently more accurate than the remaining 40XB, but I'm happy enough with them that I don't really worry about it.

This is a rather long-winded, round-about way of saying that I totally understand why you're looking to purchase a V-22, even though you're obviously pleased with your CZ. Anyone who's at all interested in shooting the NRL22 or other similar PRS-style 22RF matches can see the value & advantages of the V-22. If I were more interested in getting into the BR side of rimfire competition, I'd be interested in hearing what Mike B. has to say about whether he believes the V-22 needs modifications to be more competitive in BR shooting or not. I've not tested anything more expensive than Eley Match in mine, although the one I sent to the Lapua Test Center didn't shoot Midas + any better than it did a very good lot of Center-X. But as there are no RF BR matches that I'm aware of in western or central Kansas, I guess I'll just continue to enjoy the practical matches with the V-22s.
I've shot some really nice groups now and then with my Cz 457 but not on a consistent basis. I know that there's a lot that comes into play when shooting rimfire but with shooting a friends Vudoo it seems that shooting little groups is the norm with these rifles.
 
#66 ·
I have read this thread and the one that preceded it from end to end, and despite almost veering into a cat fight for a bit there, I must say it is excellent. People were obviously getting ticked for a while, but both sides walked it back from the edge,and I hope have some respect for others opinions. Learned a lot from both sides of the argument.
While my CZ455 is very accurate, and I am a relatively casual shooter, I absolutely love putting up one hole groups when I do everything right. It's just for the personal satisfaction and so I'm 4 weeks into the wait for my Vudoo. Nothing I have read here has caused an ounce of regret. And as far as why spend the money on one, I'm 72 years old and have the resources to get something that can only enhance something I like doing. Simple as that.
The only thing anyone said that I found hurtful was the dentist comment:rolleyes::D
Some of you guys are incredible shots regardless of the gun! I'd love the see Mike and ILOVE1022 have that shoot off.
 
#69 ·
Well I can now say I was wrong about Vudoo. I can see now that they do shoot. I myself look at a group for what it is and not the cherry picked notion that some may have. The best 5 shots tell me the accuracy potential of a gun. If it does it once, that to me says something. But nonetheless Ravage thanks for posting those groups. This thread has motivated me to get out and shoot some 5 shot groups and trust me they will be all consecutive on one target.
 
#70 ·
Very much appreciated ILIKE1022, you're a good Dude. Please reach out if you need anything, have questions, etc.

MB
 
#71 ·
Looks like I'm not the only one who got a lot out of this thread. Feels good to be a member here.

By the way, I'm sorry I changed ILIKE1022s name, but I'd still like to see you guys shooting targets head to head. Besides that I'd absolutely love to see what you could do with a Vudoo that was set up to your liking.
 
#73 ·
Yessir, THIS is what I'd expect from this community, pretty awesome. I think a handful of us should show up at ILIKE1022s range and have a good-time shoot....

Now, about this root canal....

MB
 
#72 ·
Whew!

Glad to see everyone getting along. I met a guy at Tulsa who when we got started talking about .22's in general said, "Dude, you gotta get one." :D:D:D But seriously, he talked a LOT about the rifle and was very passionate.
 
#75 · (Edited)
Because the way they were tested, at least I assume they were secured in a jig. could anyone who tested their Vudoo at Lapua post the test results.

this should show the accuracy of the barrel-action. I am curious to know what kind of results are being achieved.

Lee
Hi Lee,
I designed and made fixtures that went to the Lapua and Eley test facilities. The fixture is designed such that all rounds are fired from the magazine, not single fed, i.e., a repeater tested in a single shot environment. For a while, and possibly still the case, a Vudoo held the internal record at the Lapua facility for the smallest groups, which were below 13mm. Maybe someone will post targets....







MB
 
#77 ·
I do recall there are stipulations, I don't recall specifically what they are. But I have seen pics of targets posted with no lot number info available.

MB
 
#85 ·
I don't recall, I speak to those guys every now and again and it was mentioned as an, "Oh, by the way...."

The groups shot at the USOTC were very similar.

MB
 
#90 ·
Forgive my ignorance as I've never seen these types of testings from the Lapua facility. How much does this service cost on average and what is the turn around? I really like the idea with a new, high end gun to get you to the case level of what in all probability will shoot well.

Mike, just to clarify, they are saying the V-22 posted the smallest internal 10 shot groups, that were 13mm outside measurement, and were these at 100M or 50M?

Solid Aluminum test chassis should certainly make a true "test bed" :eek:
 
#91 · (Edited)
I believe the cost for testing is $50, but someone that's paid for it should validate that by chiming in, please.

The 10 shot groups at 50 were less than 13mm. 100 yard groups are shot at the same time, but I don't know what they measured.

Thanks JC..

MB
 
#92 ·
I just wanted to make sure it was at 50 before I had to do something drastic I'd get in trouble for if it was at 100 :D

As others have said, 10 shots at 50 under 13mm outside is some pretty serious stuff. My experience is 10 shots tend to be 20-30% larger than 5 shots groups but probably give a more realistic impression of real world performance comparable to competition situations.
 
#94 · (Edited)
Results with factory barrel 1976 Anschutz 1413 tested at Lapua 2-2019
the best group came from my base lot I brought with me.

same rifle at my home range different lot of CX 10-shots at 50yds.


I was told the standing 10-shot is 10.32mm at 50m with Midas+ I believe
my 1411 with CX lot#1962

this rifle's barrel has well over 25,000 rds. is 5-years old, and has been chambered twice, both times by RFC member Evelio McDonald

The new owner of the 1413 tells me it is the best shooting rifle he has ever started with, he is a member here at RFC he paid $1150 shipped to him

Lee
 
#96 ·
No bolt on's examples

No tuner, Anschutz 1411 the center group is why Center X is graded CX and not Midas+ 3 back to back groups no tuner CX lot # 7164, notice the other 2 groups
with a different lot all 5 -shots 50yds.


Baity Falcon no foulers or prior test shot, very first 6-shots out of a brand new barrel, no tuner or even a scope was just checking for proper extraction-
CX lot 1117

Lee
 
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