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  #136  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty123 View Post
The general rule of thumb is
2" @ 25
4" @ 50
8 " @ 100
for the bull size. We never know what Stan is going to throw at us and that keeps it interesting.

Another good starting point is to have half the bull size in the white. Another words if a 4 inch bull, have 2 inches of white showing completely around the bull in your front sight aperture. You can work up or down from this to your liking and comfortable sight picture. If using a post this would not apply.

The way you are improving, you are going to have to join us in the 50 yard Iron Shoot matches Bob.

When I shot the ducks, I eliminated it [the duck] from the equation and just concentrated on the little black bull using a smaller front insert.

I never cared for the Lee Shaver's. I have a couple sets around here somewhere. Just not enough mass to focus on. BUT, you can find the one you want to use and then stack 2 larger ones in front or back to greatly improve your focus on the front sight. Adds more mass to the circle to see better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly807 View Post
I was just thinking of posting re standard bull sizes when I saw Stan's post. He's absolutely right, 4" at 50 and 8" at 100 is the general rule of thumb worldwide.

I can share what size front aperture works for me. It gets tricky because the barrel on my Tikka is somewhat shorter than most target rifles, so a smaller aperture looks bigger. A longer sight radius would be nice, but it is what it is.

I use the same 3.6 mm front aperture for 50 yds and 100 yds under most light conditions. That'll also work for a 2" bull at 25 yds. For a larger or smaller bull, you should change apertures.

Generally, if you use aperture "X" for prone shooting, you'll go up a couple sizes for kneeling and standing. The reason for that is the sight picture is more "fluid", which is a nice way of saying it moves around a lot. Your eye will automatically center the bull in the aperture, so the larger aperture makes that seem less difficult when it's moving around.

Rear aperture size is a personal thing. I prefer to have a thin halo of light around the front globe when I look through the rear sight. It tells me everything is centered. Too small an opening reduces the amount of light getting to your eye, too large and you'll wander.
How close your eye is to the rear sight defines what size rear aperture you use.
Mine is a Gehmann adjustable aperture that screws into a Euro standard rear sight, in my case the rear sight was made by Unique.

With the eye relief on the Tikka, between 2.0 and 2.5 mm seems to work the best.

You guys are like an online shooting clinic..... if Saturdays weren't such a crap show at the range I'd probably be there by now.

I still have more testing to do, but so far it seems I have a reasonably variable range of how much white surround on the bull I can shoot well with. I'm leaning towards more, almost as much white as black.

As it stands now with the Redfield 75 and 68, rear sight on the forward mounting point for more eye relief, .047 rear app in, and 513T sight radius.... every MM on the front is almost the full field of view on a target through the front app. I took some larger targets and could just barely see a 3.25" target with the 3mm front. Comfort level seems to increase as I grow to approach 3-4 MOA total white halo up to maybe 6 MOA.... I haven't tested beyond that yet. So I shot the smallest 1" targets best with the 2.5mm insert.

I must be learning because the first attempt at the ducks was with a larger front. The second time I went to the smallest 2mm and almost picked up all my bonus points. That outer distraction is tough on the eyes, but way better than allowing more distraction. I had seen but forgot about the ability to double or triple up the Lee Shaver inserts, so might give that a try as well. They do have a thin ring, I just wish there was a card of all round inserts for this front, but there isn't much selection.

And as I've said, I think I need to go smaller on the rear still. With the current setup I can almost see the top of the barrel, so I still have at least 6-8 MOA of ring outside of the front globe. With a long sight radius and small front globe it adds up quick.


It might take some more trips and testing but I'm figuring them out. I hope to find a place to shoot longer distances at some point. I'm working on getting some larger fronts laser cut so I can shoot some of the larger targets and the A23 for offhand with round inserts. I'm going to end up needing inserts up to 5-6 mm I think, maybe more.



I'm glad there are so many good peeps shooters in this section, and on the forum in general It's really helped me sort out the things that are vague at times and start getting these things sorted out. All the input is appreciated.

Last edited by Signmaster; 11-20-2021 at 08:41 PM.
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  #137  
Old 11-21-2021, 10:47 AM
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Do you already have these in your possession Bob?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12500199716...MAAOSwmhdhlWxB
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  #138  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty123 View Post
Do you already have these in your possession Bob?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12500199716...MAAOSwmhdhlWxB
I have one that came with the rifle. It is the 2 mm with the larger black surround. I tried to drill it larger, to approximately 3 mm. It's a little off center and I bent the post slightly, but it could still be used.

I'm not sure if they go any larger than what I have now. But I do like the acrylic and would be interested to see how they transmit light.
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  #139  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
I have one that came with the rifle. It is the 2 mm with the larger black surround. I tried to drill it larger, to approximately 3 mm. It's a little off center and I bent the post slightly, but it could still be used.

I'm not sure if they go any larger than what I have now. But I do like the acrylic and would be interested to see how they transmit light.
Well keep an eye on these and others on ebay. 60 series inserts show up pretty regular. I do believe my largest Redfield insert is 4.4 for my Olympic front.
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  #140  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:44 PM
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RFC name: Tomcat21 name: Ted
Score: 30/100; Class: C-1 Irons
Rifle:Savage NRA Match Rifle, Ammo: CCI. Std Vel.
Sights: Savage Rear Aperture, Lyman globe Front
Weather:70 Deg. Mostly Sunny, light wind
Excuses: I should never have brought this gun to the range.

Put this target on the stand in the horizontal position. First time I ever shot this rifle at a range, rear aperture sight is not a thing of beauty, but it should work okay (after I finally located the sights very faint increment or hash marks at home). Also, I put a Lyman Globe front .494 high because it's very hard for me to see a blade sight, but .494 was not high enough. The rifle had minor surgery at home as the globe front was removed and the "shark fin" style front sight was reinstalled and blackened as much as I could. I tried to sight in and shoot for score at the same time, didn't work out to good. With the globe front, the first shot was wide right outside the four ring (-10), shots two through five are outside the black (-40), six and seven touch outer line of seven ring (-10), remaining shots inside the black, rings 7,8 and 9. Windage adjustment is made by a worm gear which is very loose, wobbles and goes out of adjustment at the slightest touch. This Model 1919 was produced from 1919 to 1932 and was superceded by the Model 19 N.R.A. (which had much better aperture and globe sights by Lyman) in 1933.









Last edited by Tomcat21; 11-21-2021 at 01:47 PM.
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  #141  
Old 11-21-2021, 04:23 PM
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Good shooting Ted...

With another classic rifle!

Hay, I count 5 in the black and two nicks, should be scored as 60 - not 30...


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  #142  
Old 11-21-2021, 05:52 PM
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Gave scoped lll another run. Got close to cleaning it,,,but still just close,,lol

Scoped lll. 135/150,+10,,145
PJ/John
CZ 457
Vortex Golden Eagle 15-60x52, on 40
RWS Rifle match
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6CB6DC7C-60C4-4607-90F4-6AEE0327F0DC.jpg (528.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg B14B59C7-F387-4889-8222-AA178027EECF.jpg (543.9 KB, 6 views)
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  #143  
Old 11-21-2021, 06:12 PM
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Interesting rifle, Ted. It looks like the barrel and receiver are made from a single piece of steel? I can't say I've ever seen one like it.
Classic guns like this make these matches more interesting.
I've been looking for a Stevens Favourite in .22 for quite a while, or at least one that's shootable.
Most of the ones that show up for sale are in .25 or .32 rimfire, or are listed as "parts guns".
I'd dearly love to find an affordable 1885 , falling block rifles have always interested me. Most if not all of the new ones have that half round, half octagon barrel, I'd sooner just have the straight octagon.
Wishful thinking, I guess.
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  #144  
Old 11-21-2021, 06:16 PM
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Some good shooting John. Those small bottom targets are tough cookies, I thought you got the right hand one?

I thought about trying them again starting with the bottom row, then realized I'd probably miss one of the bigger ones 🙄 if I did that..
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  #145  
Old 11-21-2021, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly807 View Post
Some good shooting John. Those small bottom targets are tough cookies, I thought you got the right hand one?
I agree, I looked at it from all directions and it's a 10.
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  #146  
Old 11-21-2021, 07:48 PM
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Nice shooting fellows! We are loosing our good shooting days here. Hope we get a few here and there. Looks warm in those pictures.
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  #147  
Old 11-21-2021, 07:57 PM
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Nice..real nice John...


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  #148  
Old 11-21-2021, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty123 View Post
Well keep an eye on these and others on ebay. 60 series inserts show up pretty regular. I do believe my largest Redfield insert is 4.4 for my Olympic front.
I've thought about going with the originals or the Alley M1 inserts, but didn't think they went that large. I might have to do some more digging.



Ted,

Interesting rifle. Considering that you were doing the sighters for score not bad, but you shoot well enough that we'll believe the crappy windage adjustment.

I did a search on the rifle as I know nothing about them, and the ads claim windage is 1 MOA clicks. But the photo shown makes it obvious the thread pitch is.... well more like a lag bolt than a precision rifle sight!

https://www.rifleman.org.uk/Savage_N...933_rifles.htm

Scroll down to the rear view of the sight and you'll see what I mean. I'm sure Ted is already aware of this. They show some really tight groups in the ad... betcha if they are real that some good old Kentucky windage was applied by the Jarheads that shot them.

Still an interesting rifle though.



John,

Being close to clearing that target is similar to being close to shooting through small aspirin tablets. That's some fine shooting on a really tough target.
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  #149  
Old 11-22-2021, 11:23 AM
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Here's wishing everyone a great Thanksgiving! Thanks Stan for some great targets!


RFC Alias: Raydar First name: Ray
Score w/ bonus: 100/100 Class: I Open Sights
Scope: N/A Iron sights: Factory
Rifle make: Winchester Mdl 63 Ammo: Fed 788 BF
Weather condition: Indoors 33 yards
Excuses: None



RFC Alias: Raydar First name: Ray
Score w/ bonus:125/100 Class: I Scoped
Scope: Sightron 3x9 @ 9 Iron sights: N/A
Rifle make: CZ 453 American Ammo: Fed 711 B
Weather conditions: Indoors 33 Yards
Excuses: None
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20211110 C1 Iron sights November.jpg (384.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Winchester Model 63.jpg (486.7 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg CZ 453 22 LR.jpg (545.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 20211122 C1 Scoped November.jpg (486.2 KB, 4 views)
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  #150  
Old 11-22-2021, 11:56 AM
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Nice shooting Ray! I love the old Winchester. It looks like an original with the slight blueing wear unless that is the photo. And it looks grooved.
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