Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner

Superstock Off-hand Challenge

64K views 789 replies 51 participants last post by  Number19 
#1 · (Edited)
Ladies and Gentlemen:

When I think of "sporters" I immediately think of hunting rifles. Growing up in Oregon I would spend a large part of my youth rummaging around various forests in search of "targets". I can't remember ever shooting at an actual target on paper. It was always soda and beer cans when sighting in. While I was hunting I would say that about 90% of my shots were offhand.
Today things are different and I spend the majority of my time shooting off of a bench and shooting rest. Paper and ¼" groups are my quest now-a-days.

Well... I want to relive the glory days! I did some searching through the SS/A forum to see if anyone had started a similar game over there but I came up empty handed. So... I'm starting my own "Off-hand Challenge" game from scratch.

This is a fun challenge with very little restriction. No restriction in ammo choices at all. I did some testing yesterday in order to set up some parameters for group averages and below is what I came up with. Enjoy!

25 Yard Off-hand Challenge:

Rules:
- All shots are to be taken unsupported in the upright (standing) position.
- All shots are to be taken at 25 yards. *** Edit - A 50 yard target has been added and separate rules apply. Please see the second thread post for supplied target and rules. ***
- 4 groups are to be shot with 5 rounds each on the same paper.
- No additional measuring shots need to be shot. Just measure any 4 individual bullet holes and clearly mark their dimensions. I am assuming that no one will be bugholing this challenge and there will be plenty of individual holes to gather data from. However, if you somehow manage to shoot so well as to not have any measuring shots, by all means please shoot 4 measuring shots. (Make sense?)
- Any Super Stock Bolt compliant rifles allowed, please designate "Sporter" or "Varmint" in your submission.
- Slings are allowed. It will be interesting to see the added benefit and advice on technique.

(Exception - If you are disabled in any way that prevents you from shooting in the standing position then by all means do what you need to in order to participate. This includes leaning against the bench for support. For anyone that is wheelchair bound please participate by shooting "off-hand" from a seated position. I don't want anyone to be excluded from this challenge and the spirit of it is to get off the bench/bags.)

Scoring your targets:
Using standard calipers and standard measurements...include the size of each measuring shot, and the total average used for subtraction. Include the outside to outside measurement of all 4 groups with the "subtractor", and the total center to center measurement. Then add all 4 groups, divide by 4, and include your group average. (Plagiarized from Tony Mig)

Average your four group sizes. If they average 2.0" or less welcome to the SuperStock Off-hand Club! Four individual categories of 2", 1.75", 1.5" and 1.25" have been established. The goal here is to shrink your groups and move yourself into the next bracket down, and hopefully into the sub 1.25" range. Self improvement baby!

Multiple rifles are encouraged!

Additional "Long John Silver" recognition will go to those that can hold their point of aim inside of the 2" outer ring for 3 out of the 4 groups and keep their average at 1.25" or less. All 5 rounds have to at least break the line. (have to use the supplied target for this) (Ladies will be categorized as "Cutlass Liz")

Further "Bluebeard" recognition will go to those that can hold their point of aim inside of the 1.25" inner circle for 3 out of 4 groups. Same rules apply as above. (Ladies will be categorized as "Gunpowder Gertie")

Downloadable target found here. Be sure to set "Print Scaling" to NONE, or your bullseyes will be smaller than 2". 25 Yard Off-hand Target

Let the fun begin!!!! YAR!

2.0" Winners List:
Trent - Mossberg 142a 1.849"
Trent - Mossberg 146b 1.938"
Tony Mig - CZ 452 Special Trainer / Williams peep sight 1.933"
crpadiem - BRNO #1 - 1.918"
EchoBravo - CZ 452 American - 1.915"
Number19 - CZ 452 Lux - 1.798" Peep Sights
Swarm - CZ 452 LUX - 1.918" (peep sights!)

1.75" Winners List:
Mr. Ouija - Biathlon Basic 1.663"
Number19 - CZ 452 Ultra Lux / Williams peep sight 1.539"
TrimGuy - CZ 454 Varmint - 1.625"
Swarm - Soviet Baikal Toz-17-01 - 1.570"
Poison Ivy - CZ Style - 1.656"
Houndog1 - Anschutz 1712 - 1.584"

1.5" Winners List:
Trent - Mossberg 144LSB 1.263"
Trent - Savage MKII BV 1.443"
Sophia - CZ-452 Trainer 1.397"
AzizaVFR - Winchester 52 1.274"
FiremanFrank - Marlin/Glenfield 20 - 1.473"
Houndog 1 - Walther KKJ - 1.475"
Model60Shooter - Savage MKII F - 1.451"
fr3db3ar - CZ 452 Special - 1.422"
Number19 - CZ 452 Ultra Lux / Williams peep sight "Peggy Sue" 1.292"
Cowboy4 - Remington 40x - 1.298"
bluemoongreg - CZ 452 Ultra Lux - 1.452" (aperture sights)
bluemoongreg - CZ 455 American - 1.372"

1.25" Winners List:
Forrest r - Savage/Anschutz Mark 10b 1.126" (Open sights!)
Forrest r - Remington 540 - 1.190" (Open sights!)
AzizaVFR - Savage MKII BTVS 1.170"
AzizaVFR - Volstok CM-2 1.218"
Trent - Mossberg 44US - 1.094" (Factory Peep Sights)
Forrest r - Mauser 320 "something or other" - 1.173" (Open sights)
Forrest r - Anschutz 1416 - 1.072"
Forrest r - Remington 513-s - 1.190"
willQuest - CZ 452 American - 1.048"
Rex M - Anschutz 54 Sporter - 1.050"
Yoffione - Browning T-bolt - 1.118"
TrimGuy - CZ 452 Varmint - 1.225"
TrimGuy - CZ 452 Varmint - 1.010"
cowboy4 - Remington 581 - 1.055"
bluemoongreg - CZ 452 Ultra Lux - 1.203" (aperture sights)
bluemoongreg - CZ 455 American - 1.065"

Sub 1.000" Winners List:
Forrest r - CZ Lux "Twiggy" - .901"
Forrest r - Remington 540X - .645" <----------------- Smallest Group So Far
Rex M - Anschutz 1710 FWT - 0.719"
Rex M - Winchester 75 with Peep sights - .871"
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712 - 0.872"
Trent - Weatherby XXii (bolt) - .952"
cowboy4 - Remington 40-X/Hart barrel - 0.901"
Yoffione - CZ 452 American - 0.978"
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712 - 0.862"
Rex M - Winchester 72 (peeps!) - 0.938"
Rex M - Anschutz 64MS - 0.875"
Rex M - Anschutz 64MSR - 0.773"
Forrest r - Remington 541S - 0.764"

Long John Silver Qualifiers: (All 5 shots inside of 2" bull and 1.250" or less)
AzizaVFR - Savage MKII BTVS
Forrest r - CZ Lux
Forrest r - Savage/Anschutz MK 10b (Open sights!)
Forrest r - Remington 540
Trent - Mossberg 44US (peep sights)
Forrest r - Mauser 320 "something or other"
Forrest r - Remington 513-s
willQuest - CZ 452 American
Rex M - Anschutz 54 Sporter
TrimGuy - CZ 452 Varmint
cowboy4 - Remington 581
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712
Trent - Weatherby XXii (bolt)
cowboy4 - Remington 40-X/Hart barrel
Yoffione - CZ 452 American
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712
Rex M - Winchester 62 (peeps!)

Bluebeard Qualifiers: (All 5 shots inside of 1.25" center bull)
Forrest r - CZ LUX "Twiggy"
Forrest r - Remington 540X
Rex M - Anschutz 1710 FWT
cowboy4 - Anschutz 1712
Rex M - Anschutz 64MS
Rex M - Anschutz 64MS
Forrest r - Remington 541S
 
See less See more
#93 ·
Pretty much the same deal with the Uncle Mike's Speed.......

A couple of tiny drawlings on the back of the package that weren't very clear, and some general guidelines that only served to confuse me more. I ended up doing what you did, tried it about 7 different ways until it looked like it did when it came out of the package.

I managed to get it set to where it fits perfectly, and should offer some stability while shooting off-hand....

Tomorrow will be the acid test......:D
 
#99 ·
I used three targets, but I threw two of them away because groups ran together when my scrawny self got tired. I almost did it again on the third (as you can see) but the groups are about 1.5" apart. Breathing plays a big part. I want a sling now too, heh.



Group Average: 1.663" shot with Federal 510s.

Oh, I took a video to show my target bouncing around when the guys in the next lanes over wanted to return their target after every shot, then send it back into the backstop again making all the targets on the range bounce, along with the weak benches. The video shows both, as I set the camera on the bench to watch them for a few... I ended up leaving early because of them.
 
#101 ·
Yea and when you're a little guy like me, you get tired of holding the rifle up waiting for your target to stop bouncing, then you get hurried, then your target goes to utter crap.

I shot some Fed510s into amazing groups for the junky rests, so I decided to go back to the Aguila Match Pistol that was doing really well last trip... Yea it looked like a shotgun blast when retardotron started getting silly with his target. Basically, I threw a box and 2 targets away. Really sad too, because each shot went EXACTLY where it was supposed to, but my target was moving. The few times it wasn't moving, the groups were all looking like zeros.

Oh, I think I like the APV on the Biathlon Basic better than the BSA 36x44. The clearer glass is easier on the eyes and when I focus the objective til I can read the target (the big one, not the ones I print) I can take my face off the stock between every shot and the POI doesn't change. Couldn't do that with the BSA even using the same procedure to get rid of parallax.
 
#103 ·
I think I have a lot better in me (well in the rifle) than what I got today. I didn't sleep last night and had to work this morning (read: lots of caffeine). I was going to pass out after work, but decided on some range time to relieve some stress. I think the lack of sleep made every nuisance at the range that much worse though.

On the up side, when I first got there the guy in the next lane over was really cool. I overheard him talking about my Biathlon Basic to his buddy and ended up chatting with him about them for a few minutes.
 
#107 ·
I spent a little time finding the natural aiming point and adjusting my body to bring it to the target. I use the same technique shooting M16 qualification and came out top of the class the last 2 times I had to shoot (once every 3 years, lol).

I think all the little things help a LOT.
 
#110 ·
he put 2 targets up (each hanger has 3 clips) and would shoot one shot at each, reel it in, then send'er back out. He was using a stainless bolt 22 with scope and all (didn't catch the model/make, but it looked like maybe a savage). Even on 4.5x in the APV I can see the holes at 30yards.

After that guy was doing it for awhile, his two buddies were doing it too. I was really tempted to shoot the clips off their target hangers. I've done similar to guys being stupid at the outdoor range, sniping the staples that hold their targets up.
 
#112 ·
Welcome to the world of public shooting ranges, and the idiots who frequent them.......;)

A brief character study......

The self appointed know-it-all....this is usually a man of advanced age who can no longer hold a rifle or pistol steady enough to hit the starboard side of a battle ship, but feels the need to bestow his vast years of shooting knowledge on all others. His knowledge of reloading is often based on out-dated materials, and he's frequently heard informing other shooters of thier incorrect shooting habbits, and safety violations, yet he'll be the only one uncasing his loaded weapon behind the shooting line, passing the muzzle across the backs of a dozen other people. This could very well be the most dangerous creature on the range because he appears innocent enough, but he's really a complete moron with the common sense of a carpenter ant......

The Rambo wanna-be.....This is usually a man of younger years, he's an avvid reader of "Soldier of Fortune" magazine, only owns the lastest in military style weapons, wouldn't be caught dead with a .22 rimfire because they are for sissies, and fashionably dresses in the latest pattern camo's. His marksmanship is usually very questionable since he only knows the "spray and pray" method of fire. Much like a blind squirrle will eventually find a nut, his bullets will eventually find whatever it is he's trying to blow to hell, and he doesn't care one bit where, or who his hot brass is hitting. He is the poster child for every anti-gun group in the nation......

The Benchrest B.S. Artist.....Middle aged to senior citizen in age group, usually has the most expensive equipment on the line, will only shoot his own reloads because nobody knows how to properly load a round better than he. His rifle scope is just a half inch smaller than the Hubble Space Telescope, and the amount of all the accessories he brings with him usually takes up the space of three shooting benches. This is the guy that will spend an hour getting set up, causes the longest cease fire of the day because he has to walk his target the farthest out than anyone else on the line because he has something to prove, and then will take only one shot, then try to strike up a conversation with anyone that'll listen to his stories of shooting conquests. He's not really a danger to anyone, but he's annoying as hell......

The Hammer.....These creatures are hard to spot at first, they will appear as any other normal guy at the range until something doesn't work right with his rifle, this is the moment he shows his true colors. Out of his range bag comes a 20 oz. ball peen hammer that he'll use as a sight adjustment tool, release a stuck bolt handle, or worst of all, use it to hammer a cleaning rod down the muzzle to free up a stuck live round in the chamber. This creature is self destructive to himself, his equipment, and to those near by.....

The Urban Cowboy.....Similar to the "Rambo Wanna-be", but in an old fashion way. He'll show up dressed like Buffalo Bill Cody, practice his fast draw, and fan fire his sixguns, then break out his Winchester 94 level action, and flip cock it like Chuck Connors did in the old western TV show "The Rifleman". If you happen to be behind him, you might feel the sense of urgency to move as the muzzle of his cowboy gun flips back in your direction. This creatue is a blatent danger to all others in a two mile radius.....

The Cop Wanna-be......Black combat fatiuges, zipper boots, and a low slung hip holster packing the latest H&K hand cannon. This guy shows up with nothing but a case of ammo, and a bad attitude. A single well placed shot is not in this guy's shooting vocabulary, everything is done with at least a double tap, if not the entire magazine, and much like is counter part "The Rambo Wanna-be" he doesn't care where or who his hot brass hits. At least this idiot doesn't try to strike up conversation because he's too full of himself to speak with the common folk. That may be the only benefit to his character.....

The Range Safety Nazi.......A good range safety officer is always a good thing to have when you're forced to deal with the likes of all others mentioned above, but nothing will screw up an otherwise good day at the range than a safety nazi that takes everything he learned in his NRA safety officer class to the extreme. This is the guy that constantly barks out orders while you are trying your best to concentrate on that 4th shot on your 4th group of a perfect 1/4" target. More times than not just the sound of his voice is fingernails on a chaulkboard, and you wish the guy would go take a lunch break.......

I have more, but the range opens in 15 minutes....catch you all later.....and Happy 4th of July......:D
 
#116 ·
Well, I am up in Boulder Colorado for the weekend. No shooting for me. The weather is god awefully beautiful! I love it here. We've been thinking about movig up here (my wife is from here), and I am doing everything I can to sway the decision towards CO.

AZ is too dang hot. But then again... I can still shoot in the winter in AZ. :cool:

Hope you guys are having a great 4th of July so far!! Keep the results coming!
 
#117 ·
Well Trent, I certainly hope you are enjoying your holiday weekend, because you sure as hell destroyed mine........

What in the world ever motovated you to think up something as horrible as this "Off-Hand" shooting game, do you have any idea the pain and distress you put me through today....??? I'm seriously thinking about taking up a dangerous drug habbit after what you just put me through.....

I hope you can sleep tonight pal, I might if I can drink myself to sleep.....:bonk:

You are an evil man Trent......:1t

Now that I got all that off my chest......:D ........here's the summary of my first attempts at the "Off-Hand" Challenge.....

Tried to shoot at the little circles, but for some reason I just couldn't maintain any kind of sight picture with them. I had a few of these targets printed up with the big circles with yellow centers, and they seemed to help, so after shooting a few of the small circle targets, and a few more of the big circle targets, I was able to finally settle into somewhat of a pattern where I could at least keep all my shots on paper. I took a break, drank a soda, relaxed my eyes, then took one more crack at it, and bearly squeezed in a target under the 2" mark......


I'm here to tell ya, this aint easy folks, even using a hasty sling it's no walk in the park. This is going to take a lot more practice, and work to get that average group size down, but it'll also be good practice for that off-hand stage I have to shoot at the 3-P matches. I'll keep plugging away at it to see if I can make some improvement......:bthumb:

CZ 452 Special Trainer / Williams peep sight, stock front post / Uncle Mike's Hasty Sling.
Aquila Golden Eagles / target shot on 07/04/2008
Group #1 - 2.132"
Group #2 - 1.725"
Group #3 - 1.983"
Group #4 - 1.892"
Average Group = 1.933"

I'll be going to the liquor store now......:rolleyes:
 
#122 ·
Tried to shoot at the little circles, but for some reason I just couldn't maintain any kind of sight picture with them.
I was wondering how the peeps were going to do with maintaining a sight picture. Next time out I am going to give it a try. I might need a solid 2" black circle to keep my eyes focused on them.

On my scoped rifles I am also going to play around with the power and see what power gives me the best results.
 
#119 ·
Oh DEAR!

I ain't cut out for off hand shootin'

I did manage to put 5 shots inside of 1.5" but sprayed 10 more shots ALL OVER including one off paper!

Moving about 6yds closer and going to a knee and resting on a birdbath I put the last 5 about 5/8" before subtracting a measure hole.

So even a cobbed up rest is WAY better for me.

My Dad says at this distance open sights would probably be better. But neither of my bolt guns can do that.

Perhaps when I pick up the CZ.....
 
#121 ·
Yeah, I think for those guys with good eyesight and some standard open sights this challenge might be right up they're alley.

I had a few targets where I felt my body go whacky right when I shot and then mysteriously couldn't find my bullet hole. :cool: :eek:
 
#120 ·
Oh yeah. I know you're joking. :bthumb: I like your style!

I sure am glad we added in the extra catagories! 1.25" was wishful thinking without more practice.

The nice thing though is that we can save the $5+ ammo for the Sawdust challenge, and 100yd MOA. I think 510 and the like are great for this. Although with the mossbergs I'll probably stick with the Rem Subsonics, and I might try to find some of that 714, and I think I'm going to grab some of the old stock Dynapoints at kmart for $20/brick that I found.

Got you posted up Tony! Now we just need to get our names "inching" up the list closer to the Long John Silver category!
 
#124 ·
I don't know. I'm thinking 9 power is about as low as I want to go. That 6x on my Mossy 146b made it real tough! Of course it is little tiny 20mm objective guy. With my 144LSB I think I was on 18 power and honestly that seemed to work pretty good.

I might have to steal the APV off of my semi-auto and throw it on the 146b for this challenge. That old weaver 6x isn't on the same level as todays scopes... but it sure is fun, and it looks nice on there.

Do you have to hold low at 25 because the peep is mounted on top of the receiver?
 
#126 ·
Do you have to hold low at 25 because the peep is mounted on top of the receiver?
The front post is adjustible, and when I last adjusted it for the stock rear sight I tighten it on a slight angle because I was too lazy to pull the hood off and give myself proper access to the screw, as a result I snapped one side of the screw head off and I can't remove it by conventional means.

The peep is set all the way down, and my POI is high at 25 yards, so the front post needs to come up to meet said POI. At 50 yards it's a perfect 6 O'clock hold on the bull, but at 25 I have to use Kentucky elevation to compensate for my past mechanical errors.....:eek:
 
#125 ·
I bought a full set of NRA steel silhouette targets a few months ago (5 of each animal). This challenge is doing two things...

1) Making me want to build the stands I need for them and give them a try.
and
2) Makes me realize how **** hard it is going to hit those little chickens at 40 meters shooting offhand!
 
#127 ·
I gave this game a try today.

How'd I do, you ask?

(Official answer) - Well, my targets are still at the range. In the trash can.

(Unofficial answer) - I suck at this!!! :eek: :( :eek:


It's funny though, I can hit the little steel silhouette targets at 60 yds almost every time shooting offhand. But a bullseye at 25? Fuggetaboudit! :bonk: :bang: :banghead3 :D
 
#128 ·
I gave this game a try today.

How'd I do, you ask?

(Official answer) - Well, my targets are still at the range. In the trash can.

(Unofficial answer) - I suck at this!!! :eek: :( :eek:

It's funny though, I can hit the little steel silhouette targets at 60 yds almost every time shooting offhand. But a bullseye at 25? Fuggetaboudit! :bonk: :bang: :banghead3 :D
LOL, Speed - I too have had disillusions of trying this game... :D
 
#129 ·
If I can get the lady to go with me, and I do not go terrorizing the backroads of San Diego County, I will give this a shot with the Winchester. I guess I should practice with the spring air pellet rifle first.
 
#131 ·
The NRA A23/5 they use for the 50 yard benchrest matches would be a very good alternative target, cut the 5th...(sighter)...bull off the top, and you have 4 large black circles to aim at.....;)

I'm thinking about trying that the next time I'm in a self destructive mood....:D
 
#132 ·
When I did my target, I started at 14x on the APV, but turned it down to 10x. Seemed just about right... I made a routine for each shot to try and make the shooting easier. I basically would draw in a breath, letting my POA go well above the target and slowly release it until it was on target, then if I was satisfied, I squeezed the trigger. I have to admit though, I didn't really stick to the last part, as my target shows. =/
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top