Enablers, come on in! (Follow up thread) - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-21-2021, 02:54 PM
LTTG

Join Date: 
Jan 2021
Posts: 
119
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Enablers, come on in! (Follow up thread)



Log in to see fewer ads
UPDATE in post #13 below.

As I said in the other thread on "How do you decide?", I'm looking for a new scope. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

My only shooting right now is infrequent, mostly .22LR, all on paper targets, and my preferred range has 25, 50, 100, 200, 300, and 600-yard stations. I'd like to begin stretching the .22LR out to 200 for the novelty of it but I shoot mainly at 25 and 50 yards, so parallax adjustment will be on the list of features, preferably to as little as 10 yards.

I currently have, on two different semi-autos, a Tasco 3-9 variable, and a fixed 4x Bushnell. Both scopes are usable with respect to the clarity of the glass, because I look through them and I see the target, and I don't need much else.

My eyes need more magnification than I currently have. When shooting at 100 yards, I can't see the bullet holes using the scope (or with 10X binoculars). So I'm thinking 4X-12X minimum, and in the past few days have started looking at 6X-18X variables.

My only experience is with duplex reticles, and I like their simplicity. However, BDC reticles intrigue me. They seem somehow "more fun" (using the reticle proficiently becomes a game within the game), AND easier than dialing in elevation corrections, though that would be less of an issue if you had return-to-zero turrets. But I don't compete, so how often will I be adjusting turrets?

BDC reticles are of course available for .22, but I doubt would be useful for anything else, so I recognize that if I go BDC, it's going to stay on a .22 rifle. I really liked Primary Arms' version of an ACSS reticle for .22, but it is only available in magnifications lower than I need.

Final note: I don't think I have a preference between FFP and SFP. I see the pros and cons of both.

These scopes are in the running:

Athlon Neos 4-12X40 ($120 for duplex, $150 for .22 BDC)
Athlon Neos 6-18X44 ($140 for duplex, $170 for BDC but not a .22 BDC)
Bushnell Banner 6-18X50 ($110 only available in duplex) Part number 616185
Vortex Crossfire II 6-18X44 ($219 with BDC, but not .22 BDC) - I have a line on a used copy for less this MSRP.

I'm trying to stay with 1" tubes to (theoretically) avoid the need for new mounts on either rifle. All of these have adjustable parallax down to 10 yards. And the budget is <$200.

Thoughts? (And I'm about to call Doug at Camera Land).

Last edited by LTTG; 10-25-2021 at 06:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-21-2021, 03:22 PM
randyman_ar's Avatar
randyman_ar
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Dec 2005
Location: 
Arkansas
Posts: 
594
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
https://aaoptics.com/Crossfire-II_c_135.html

Can't go wrong with Doug. Bought an Athlon Cronus from him a few yrs back. Check out the above link. Bought 2 Viper HST 6-24-50 refurbs. No complaints what so ever and still has Vortex lifetime warranty.
__________________
Growing older by the hour...uglier by the minute
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-21-2021, 03:47 PM
BobSc is online now
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Oregon
Posts: 
1,679
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Today is the last day of a clearance sale a CamerlandNY and he has an Athlon Argos in your range on sale right now... also, several others....

Also, Hawke makes a scope specifically for .22 rimfire with a bullet drop reticle that matches Standard velocity ammo and another version of the same scope that matches HV .22 ammo.

SWFA has their scopes with the MOA/MOA reticle for bullet drops and it has a ton of aiming adjustment without touching the elevation knobs. A little bit out of your budget, though...

Of your list, I'm pretty sure the Bushnell Banner and Vortex won't focus down to your requirements and don't even have an AO or focus knob available on those versions....

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1233947
The Athlon Argos 6-24 would be just about perfect for what you are looking for even if it is a bit out of your budget...

Last edited by BobSc; 10-21-2021 at 03:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-21-2021, 04:02 PM
zukiphile
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2002
Location: 
ohio
Posts: 
1,989
TPC Rating: 
100% (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTTG View Post
I'd like to begin stretching the .22LR out to 200 for the novelty of it but I shoot mainly at 25 and 50 yards, so parallax adjustment will be on the list of features, preferably to as little as 10 yards.
This first part isn't exactly a suggestion, but it leads to one.

A couple of years ago I found a BSA rimfire scope, 2.5x20, in the back of my closet. Parallax was set to 50 yards, but it was still very good at 25 yards. It broke after a while and I've moved on to 2.5x20 shotgun scopes with 100 yard parallax settings.

If you found a Leupold fixed power scope you really liked, could you have it adjusted to a 50 yard parallax? I do believe they offer that service.

I have AO scopes that do well, but only if the parallax adjustment is carefully dialed in.

Last edited by zukiphile; 10-21-2021 at 05:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-21-2021, 04:34 PM
nevadany's Avatar
nevadany
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2006
Location: 
Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 
3,566
TPC Rating: 
100% (10)
Responded to your other thread before I saw this one...I mentioned a scope, and after reading the ones you are looking at in this thread, I think it's one you should take a look at:

Burris Fullfield E1 4.5-14x42 with the basic ballistic plex reticle.

Not affiliated, but i've bought a couple from this seller and can recommend
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/913694235

DW
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-22-2021, 08:03 AM
Al the Infidel's Avatar
Al the Infidel
US Marines Disabled American Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2007
Location: 
yankeeville, Yooperland
Posts: 
1,019,127
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
If you found a Leupold fixed power scope you really liked, could you have it adjusted to a 50 yard parallax? I do believe they offer that service.
Not anymore but there is a thread in this Forum how to do it one's self. Easy cheesy with 2 cheap rubber strap wrenches IME.
__________________
You carry a gun so you are hard to kill... know the law so you are hard to convict.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-22-2021, 10:03 AM
flangster

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
5,222
TPC Rating: 
100% (38)
I am going to reframe your question to make your answer easy.

Q: "I want to shoot from 10 yards to 200 yards. I want to play with a BDC. I want a 1" scope. And I want to stay under $200 How do I buy one scope that does it all?"
A: You can't.

"But wait, Flangster. . . are you saying this is an impossible problem?"

No. I am saying you can have 2 of the 4, but not 4 of the 4. The obvious answer is to get two scopes.

If you want one scope then I think randyman above has the right idea.

To see .22 caliber bullet holes at 100 yards, I need at least 18x, but really 24x is the minimum comfortable magnification. 36x is much better at 100 yards. My not-so-tongue-in-cheek advice is to buy a picatinny rail for your rifle to swap out the two scopes you are going to need to meet your list of requirements. But even shooting at 200 yards is going to require a ton of internal adjustment. Remember at 200, that little .22 pill is basically headed down at a pretty steep angle. Holdover at that distance from a 50 yard zero is something like 5 feet. You need a whole different set up to have your scope on the target.

The real problem with the constraints you have listed is that your desires encompass the extremes of what .22 LR can do. And extremes cost money.

I'd get this: https://us.hawkeoptics.com/vantage-s...44-mil-dot.html or this https://aaoptics.com/REFURBISHED-CRO...BDC_p_397.html

And this for your long distance shooting:

https://www.sportsmans.com/hunting-g...ader/p/1387675
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-22-2021, 10:39 AM
zukiphile
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2002
Location: 
ohio
Posts: 
1,989
TPC Rating: 
100% (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
My not-so-tongue-in-cheek advice is to buy a picatinny rail for your rifle to swap out the two scopes you are going to need to meet your list of requirements.
I do a fair bit of this, and I've few complaints. I don't always get a perfect return to zero, but the adjustments needed are always minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
No. I am saying you can have 2 of the 4, but not 4 of the 4. The obvious answer is to get two scopes.

***

To see .22 caliber bullet holes at 100 yards, I need at least 18x, but really 24x is the minimum comfortable magnification. 36x is much better at 100 yards.
If the solutions is two scopes, should one of those just be a spotting scope?

It's a philosophy of use question, but my preference isn't to have a spotting scope on my rifle, but to have an optimized sight for the ranges at which I'll shoot and the way I'll shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-22-2021, 10:55 AM
flangster

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
5,222
TPC Rating: 
100% (38)
That might make much more sense.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-23-2021, 12:08 AM
lone gunman's Avatar
lone gunman
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2012
Location: 
great north west
Posts: 
1,090
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I am going to sound like a broken record on this but I love their glass. look into Meopta's optika5 line of scopes, they are one-inch tubes and have units made for rimfire (might be hard to find) but the quality can't be beaten for the money spent and you get a European quality scope, not Chinese quality.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-23-2021, 08:53 PM
LTTG

Join Date: 
Jan 2021
Posts: 
119
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
I am going to reframe your question to make your answer easy.

Q: "I want to shoot from 10 yards to 200 yards. I want to play with a BDC. I want a 1" scope. And I want to stay under $200 How do I buy one scope that does it all?"
A: You can't.

"But wait, Flangster. . . are you saying this is an impossible problem?"

No. I am saying you can have 2 of the 4, but not 4 of the 4. The obvious answer is to get two scopes.

If you want one scope then I think randyman above has the right idea.

To see .22 caliber bullet holes at 100 yards, I need at least 18x, but really 24x is the minimum comfortable magnification. 36x is much better at 100 yards. My not-so-tongue-in-cheek advice is to buy a picatinny rail for your rifle to swap out the two scopes you are going to need to meet your list of requirements. But even shooting at 200 yards is going to require a ton of internal adjustment. Remember at 200, that little .22 pill is basically headed down at a pretty steep angle. Holdover at that distance from a 50 yard zero is something like 5 feet. You need a whole different set up to have your scope on the target.

The real problem with the constraints you have listed is that your desires encompass the extremes of what .22 LR can do. And extremes cost money.

I'd get this: https://us.hawkeoptics.com/vantage-s...44-mil-dot.html or this https://aaoptics.com/REFURBISHED-CRO...BDC_p_397.html

And this for your long distance shooting:

https://www.sportsmans.com/hunting-g...ader/p/1387675
Flangster, this is an incredibly helpful post. Mainly because it helps me give up on the idea of .22 out to 200. I know some people do it, but I don't want to get into all that gear.

So, that narrows things down a bit. Also the comment on 18 and 24 magnification for 100 yards helps. Someone said the other day that "hunters want about 1.5X per one hundreds yards, but target shooters want about 3X per hundred yards". I didn't argue, but such folks have way better eyes and/or much finer reticles than I do.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-23-2021, 09:28 PM
flangster

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
5,222
TPC Rating: 
100% (38)
You are most welcome. The above is just what worked for me and my middle-aged eyes. First time I shot at 200 yards was on a 10-inch steel plate. I laid it on the ground up against the target frame, figured out the dope using an online calculator, and then spray painted a dot 60 inches above the steel plate on the backer. I shot on the spray-painted dot without adjusting my 50 yard zero and was getting those pings back in no time. No fancy optics needed. Wouldn't work for hunting, of course. But it was a fun day at the range.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-25-2021, 06:02 PM
LTTG

Join Date: 
Jan 2021
Posts: 
119
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
UPDATE: I went to the range on Friday, looked through a lot of scopes, and evaluated a lot of reticles. I also confirmed that I wanted a LOT more magnification than 9X. Finally, I realize that a true BDC reticle is very limiting. What I want instead is some sort of mildot or MOA dot.

So, as is my way, I spent all weekend down the rabbit hole. This is my shortlist, in order of likelihood. Please share any thoughts you have.

A) Athlon Talos 4-16X40, Mildot reticle (BDC IR reticle is 10% more, but it puts a big "wart" of a control on the ocular - looks terrible).

B) Athlon Neos 6-18X44, standard duplex reticle (BDC IR reticle is 11% more, but it's BDC)

Note: A and B, with the reticles listed, are the same price, so the Talos is a slight favorite as it is supposedly better glass and better internals, even though I'm giving up 2X at the top end of magnification.

C) Konus Konuspro 6-24X44, Mildot reticle. (Not really Mildots, more like Milsquares, which I don't care for). It's also AO, rather than side focus like A and B, and I think I'd prefer relative ease of the third "turret". And the warranty is only 1-year. But it is about 8% less than A or B, and a LOT more magnification at the top end.

I'd love to hear any and all thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-25-2021, 11:35 PM
BobSc is online now
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
Oregon
Posts: 
1,679
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
All things being equal- quality glass, good fit on your rifle, controls are comfortable , etc.... go with the extra magnification. I've never heard anyone target shooting say they wish they had less magnification and the older we get, the more we like or need...

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-26-2021, 08:55 AM
nevadany's Avatar
nevadany
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2006
Location: 
Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 
3,566
TPC Rating: 
100% (10)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTTG View Post
I'd love to hear any and all thoughts.
I'm sure any of those will serve you just fine. Pick one and move forward.


DW
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x