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  #61  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Without pics it didn't happen.
I need my rifle pron 2many.
I need to see the rifle and the range and the targets
and the chronograph and the bench and the tools and the ammo
and the background and the printouts and the spreadsheets.

Set y'er OCD free.
Oops, forgot to take pictures, just have to take my word for it
But since its the logical result, that shouldnt be too difficult.
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  #62  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:52 AM
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Thanks 2many....I feel much better now.

Rifle Pron...it's not just a option, it's mandatory!
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  #63  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomany22s View Post
Well since you couldnt be bothered. I have spent the last 72 hours doing your job.

With a a Ruger 10 22 and a 28 inch stainless GM barrel, and 10,000 rounds of Lapua Center X from the same lot.

1000 rounds, and then cut off an inch , untill i got down to 18 inches. And , as each inch went the bullets got faster and the std deviation in mv speed got bigger. And as a side note the groups got bigger too!
That’s 3 rounds per minute for 72 hours (assuming you slept 16 hours of it) without stopping to eat, drink, pee, answer the phone, set up targets, set up lighting (assuming it gets dark at night) or saw an inch off your barrel.
I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I am saying it would be a tedious grind.
I can only assume you were seated at a shooting bench on a portable commode, somebody was bringing you sandwiches and drinks, changing targets while you reloaded magazines, and fetching 2 bricks of ammo while you cut the barrel down. All that walking must have been difficult once the spent brass got ankle deep.
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  #64  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:59 AM
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That stock is big time green……….
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  #65  
Old 10-11-2021, 09:14 AM
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It matches my eyes and the green band on the scope.
Its a fancy stock, but I can’t remember the makers name. On Ebay its Glenlvt.
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  #66  
Old 10-11-2021, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomany22s View Post
It matches my eyes and the green band on the scope.
Its a fancy stock, but I can’t remember the makers name. On Ebay its Glenlvt.
I thought Glenlivet made scotch??……..
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  #67  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Valdina View Post
Just posted: "28 inch stainless GM barrel, and 10,000 rounds of Lapua Center X from the same lot. 1000 rounds, and then cut off an inch , until i got down to 18 inches. And , as each inch went the bullets got faster and the std deviation in mv speed got bigger. And as a side note the groups got bigger too!"

I suspect harmonics are involved which makes changing barrel length have two variables, not just one. And that makes drawing conclusions shaky at best.
Information of this nature is welcome, but it's not always equally reliable. It would be useful to know who "just posted" it and where.

The shooter who produced the well-known and often-referred-to ".22LR Rimfire Ammunition Comparison Test" published online on Accurateshooter.com (https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns...mparison-test/) also did a test in which he progressively shortened the barrel length to assess its impact on MV and accuracy.
See http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...3/m/4871072832

Although the test didn't produce any profound pronouncements, the shooter doing it observed after it was noted that .22LR barrel length didn't have a significant impact on velocity "Amazing is in it? With center fire each inch means something, here not so much." (post on March 5, 2018 at 11:21 [no post #])
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  #68  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
I understand the conventional wisdom of that. I just found that not to be true.
Sometimes I think people come up with this stuff to see how many people will say it is written so it is true.
Some shooters may find that in their own testing, with or without a chronograph, with or without an accurate measurement of wind speed changes, results can defy what the math says is correct. One of the convenient things about .22LR ballistics is that so much of it can really be a matter of opinion.
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  #69  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomany22s View Post
Well since you couldnt be bothered. I have spent the last 72 hours doing your job.

With a a Ruger 10 22 and a 28 inch stainless GM barrel, and 10,000 rounds of Lapua Center X from the same lot.

1000 rounds, and then cut off an inch , untill i got down to 18 inches. And , as each inch went the bullets got faster and the std deviation in mv speed got bigger. And as a side note the groups got bigger too!
LOL! That may happen with the slow target ammo.

Now try that with CCI Velocitors.

I'm betting you'll find that the exact opposite happens with a high power round.

Don't try it today though........you must need rest after that ordeal.

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  #70  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post

Although the test didn't produce any profound pronouncements, the shooter doing it observed after it was noted that .22LR barrel length didn't have a significant impact on velocity "Amazing is in it? With center fire each inch means something, here not so much." (post on March 5, 2018 at 11:21 [no post #])
PG, I don't recall seeing that thread previously, but the result is very interesting. He gets a smaller variation that the Ballistic by the Inch site, but your forum link was also using a different assortment of ammunition. Intuitively, I'm stuck for a good reason that a 16.75 inch barrel would give barely greater velocity than a 10 inch barrel, but one can't argue with the resulting observation.

I do find these discussions about 22lr velocity peculiar. No one chooses 22lr because it's so fast, yet once it's chosen the impulse to "optimize" the very low velocity takes over. It's like wondering which dress shoe would be best for mountain climbing.

One aspect of barrel length I hope to test before the year is out is the degree to which it influences back pressure and function in a semi-automatic. I can already say that a HV, long barrel and light bolt will have the barrel dumping lots of junk into the receiver, and making the bolt too fast. I've read, but not directly experienced, people with very short barrelled rifles having function problems with bolt velocities that appear inadequate.
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  #71  
Old 10-11-2021, 11:00 AM
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That is an interesting question.

Our 10/22 punches the same-sized holes as the guys shooting ARs, and I had a reasonable stash of 5.56 when we started this venture. Probably 10 or more competitors vs 1 or 2 .22s.

I am not in any way critical of higher-power weapons.
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  #72  
Old 10-11-2021, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
PG, I don't recall seeing that thread previously, but the result is very interesting. He gets a smaller variation that the Ballistic by the Inch site, but your forum link was also using a different assortment of ammunition. Intuitively, I'm stuck for a good reason that a 16.75 inch barrel would give barely greater velocity than a 10 inch barrel, but one can't argue with the resulting observation.

I do find these discussions about 22lr velocity peculiar. No one chooses 22lr because it's so fast, yet once it's chosen the impulse to "optimize" the very low velocity takes over. It's like wondering which dress shoe would be best for mountain climbing.
The Ballistics by the Inch .22LR results use a very small number of shots and as a result are statistically open to question.

Discussions about trying to match .22LR barrel length with the fastest ammo velocity are indeed largely a red herring. Whatever distance is being shot, the goal should instead be finding lots that shoot most accurately, regardless of velocity.
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  #73  
Old 10-14-2021, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenBachiler View Post
I do not own a chronograph or I would not be asking, but has anyone documented the fps loss for SV and HV .22lr out of a 28 inch barrel? I would love that info. I have seen references to a 20-50 fps reduction. Any hard data?
my very limited results.
results of shooting SK Rifle Match Ammunition in three different length barrels on three different rifles.

BSA Martini 12/15 29" Barrel 1037 fps 20 SD
Winchester/Miroku 1885 24" Barrel 1033 fps 21 SD
Ruger 77/22 19" Barrel 1059 fps 8 SD
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  #74  
Old 10-14-2021, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomany22s View Post
Well , it seems to me, that a longer barrel would shrink the deviation inherent in 22 lr muzzle velocity and therefore would result in smaller groups given the same ammo , gun etc . So , even though its not said enough, “ longer is better
I have always thought the same, but no proof. The additional barrel length might slow down the higher velocity more than the slower bullet giving a smaller SD. But not sure how the resistance might change with different velocities.

I think the longer barrels were more popular with iron sights. A longer sight radius has its advantages. Most folks use scopes nowadays.

Also unlike higher velocity centerfire rounds which give less wind deflection as the velocity increases, rimfire being below the speed of sound gives less wind deflection the slower it goes. Something about time of flight etc. That is why all quality rimfire target ammo is standard velocity and not HV. When I left ARA a few years ago benchrest shooters were mostly using 24 - 26 inch barrels. Even though the 16 inch barrel gives shorter barrel time, less time for the shooter to manhandle the gun, the longer barrels were more popular.

So for accuracy I think the longer barrel has its advantages even though the bullet is a bit slower. How much velocity do you need to punch a hole in paper. Even squirl hunting the slower bullet is quieter giving a better chance for a follow up.
Of course if you hunting bear ignore all I've said.

But to test all the theories on SD, velocity etc. would be a time consuming expensive proposition. As it is not just chopping off and inch at a time and re-crowning. Barrels are not perfect, they have tight spots, loose spots that could throw off velocities. Best accuracy would be cutting off at a tight spot. Crowns vary. So perhaps 10 barrels and several months would be needed for the test. And then the lot of ammo used might give better barrel harmonics at a certain length. Gives me a headache thing about it.
Rich
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  #75  
Old 10-14-2021, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinthills View Post
I think the longer barrels were more popular with iron sights. A longer sight radius has its advantages.
Even if you are shooting with a scope, a longer barrel of the same weight will be more stable offhand.
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