Model 69A-Factory Drilled and Tapped Barrel? - Page 3 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #31  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:47 AM
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Here's mine.

Note the plug screws in the forward part of the barrel which is where the scope mounting block would have been located.



This next pic is kinda' blurry but you can see the proof mark on the receiver and BETWEEN the rear plug screws in the barrel.



Here is the original issued rear sight.



Here is the original issued front sight.



Rear sling swivel.



Front sling swivel.



Hector
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:59 AM
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OUTSTANDING! Thanks Hector, yours and mine do appear to have exactly the same features. Have you seen anything about mine that differs from your model? It gets more and more unlikely that these guns could have been produced in such an identical pattern outside the factory when that proof mark is plugged into the equation. I spent a lot of time last night looking for the one picture I have seen of a very similar to ours gun but with the proof mark set back in the normal location and pierced by the rear scope block hole, to no avail. Couldn't find it. I believe it belongs to Fillmore.
And if you can, when you have time, can you measure the distance between your sling swivels? Mine was about 1/16" off from being 25 inches center to center.





We are still awaiting maybe one or two more, dewald is out there somewhere with what I believe may be the third one of the same mould, and there may be others. Again, thanks, it appears we have a special edition indeed.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-01-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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Here's a better pic of the rear screw locations, and proof marks.



Here is the "star" stamp on the receiver.



Hector
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2010, 11:50 AM
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I took the liberty of tweaking that proof mark photo Hector. The proof is easier to see, but unfortunately turns your 99% deep bluing job into a rust-blued special! Appreciate the feedback.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-21-2010 at 02:34 PM.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:20 PM
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AGS,

Another thing that helps define our rifles is that "Short, Long, Long Rifle" are spelled out vs. "S, L, LR".

I have not checked the stock dimensions, or the distance from the reciever to the scope mount holes, but will try to get that done soon.

So far our rifles appear to be identical, except that your has the scope and mine still has the peep sight.

I don't know about yours, but when they built mine, the guys in New Haven put some kind of magical mojo in it. Trigger is a little stiff, but breaks clean. The thing is crazy accurate at 70 years old, and no one knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of rounds it has eaten. Shot expert at my first Appleseed using that rifle. Recently shot a 1/2" 9 shot group at 25 yards from prone with sling. It will make a good showing against my scoped H&R M 12 target rifle.

Great rifles. Look forward to hearing more about them.

Hector

Last edited by HectorFuego; 11-01-2010 at 02:26 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:28 PM
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Hector,
I believe the spelled out caliber designation was a pre-War feature. From the catalog info JWA and Asa have mentioned, our rifles apparently came at or before 1940. My rifle has been returned to its original form, which like yours was without a scope or blocks and with the 80A rear peep and that 93A blade front. The last time I brought this gun out to our range, scoped with that Lyman Jr Targetspot 10x, one of my friends yelled at me when I started picking off his clay pigeons from the bench at 115 yards with boring monotony. The trigger on mine is crisp and breaks like glass at about 3#, and like yours, maybe should have had "1 of 1000" scripted on the top of the barrel.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-21-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2010, 04:03 PM
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AGS,

Does yours have 1" or 1-1/4" sling swivels?

Hector
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2010, 04:39 PM
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HF,

Great pictures! Thanks for posting. Yours looks identical to AGS. If you post some additional pictures of the sling keepers and hooks I can probably tell you if the sling is originally from Winchester.

Since you have it out of the stock can you measure the comb drop also? I am curious if yours is in a Target/Match stock also.

Great rifles and pictures!

Regards,

Last edited by JWA; 11-21-2010 at 06:20 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2010, 05:43 PM
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Are we making things too complicated?
That rifle appears to be a 69A "Target" that is factory D&T. I have seen several of these over the years.
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbl View Post
Are we making things too complicated?
That rifle appears to be a 69A "Target" that is factory D&T. I have seen several of these over the years.
dbl, The problem is that this rifle shoots all three cartridges, not LR Only, comes with four lands and grooves, not six, has the 93A blade front sight not the 97A, and has a Match not Target stock. But you make a good point, it's a hybrid I guess would be a good description. My chief goal is not to make it fit a certain label, I just want to get a good amount of certainty, based upon solid evidence, that it is a true factory gun, not done up afterwards. Appreciate your input. Do you recall that any of the ones you've seen had the 80A rear on a Match stock? All of this energy is due to the dearth of information on just what it is, and as I told JWA recently, helps explain why there is no definitive book on the 'other' Winchester 22's such as the 69A, the 72, 75, 77, and etc. There just sadly doesn't seem to be enough data stored away to research for a decent publication. So far. And it's a great exercise in detective work and deduction.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-01-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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  #41  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HectorFuego View Post
AGS,

Does yours have 1" or 1-1/4" sling swivels?

Hector
The swivels are for an 1 1/4" sling, the max internal loop dimensions run 1.31" across.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-01-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22AGS View Post
dbl, The problem is that this rifle shoots all three cartridges, not LR Only, comes with four lands and grooves, not six, has the blade front sight not the 97A, and has a Match not Target stock. But you make a good point, it's a hybrid I guess would be a good description.


22AGS described the inconsistencies between his rifle and the 69 Target very well. Neither of these rifles (22AGS or HF's) fit the published definitions of the 69 Match, 69 Target, 69 Peep or 69 Open Sight models although they are assembled with Winchester components from those models. The fact they are also D&T'd is just ancillary information but part of the same puzzle. Since existing Winchester records are scarce on these models most of our knowledge and information stems from direct observation. The more input we have from you guys based upon your personal experience, photos and collections, the larger our database of knowledge will become.

22AGS, again, kudos for stirring the pot and keeping our Winchester juices flowing.

Regards,
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  #43  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:13 PM
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It is true that this particular topic is more of an intellectual exercise than a cut and dried by-the-numbers analysis, since we are having to piece together what's going on here-- a clue here, a picture there, another nugget over in the corner. In doing so, everyone reading this thread and following along is hopefully learning a LOT about the entire 69A lineup. I just wish we had more guys throwing their hat in the ring with their own rifles, experience and observations. But we're all doing fairly well I would say. Now I'm expecting someone to chip in with their JTSS version and seeing what parts were taken off of THAT gun
(it actually came along way too late to contribute any spare parts to this model)

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-01-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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  #44  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22AGS View Post
OUTSTANDING! Thanks Hector, yours and mine do appear to have exactly the same features. Have you seen anything about mine that differs from your model? It gets more and more unlikely that these guns could have been produced in such an identical pattern outside the factory when that proof mark is plugged into the equation. I spent a lot of time last night looking for the one picture I have seen of a very similar to ours gun but with the proof mark set back in the normal location and pierced by the rear scope block hole, to no avail. Couldn't find it. I believe it belongs to Fillmore.
And if you can, when you have time, can you measure the distance between your sling swivels? Mine was about 1/16" off from being 25 inches center to center.





We are still awaiting maybe one or two more, dewald is out there somewhere with what I believe may be the third one of the same mould, and there may be others. AgaAin, thanks, it appears we have a special edition indeed.
22AGS, my 69A is drilled through the proof on the barrel, right through the middle of it. you can barely see the edges of the mark, but I dont think I have a pic of that because my camera wouldn't do closeups very good and now it wont even take pics. Guess I know what to ask for for Christmas now,lol. I did put a ruler on the buttstock though and it is straight. The stock is totaly different from my 69A Chromie though. Also, mine has different front sights than you guys. I think the trigger on mine is possibly the best of any of my Winchesters, and I have three 52's. It is also super accurate. The muzzel is flat too, not rounded like my chromie.
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  #45  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:40 PM
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Drop at heel is 1-3/4". Sling swivels are 25" (plus or minus 1/16"). My measurements to and between the scope mount holes are close to yours. It's difficult to get an accurate measurement with the plug screws in it. I attribute the differences to that.

The comb seems to have a slight hump to it...not straight.

Hector
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