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Old 09-16-2020, 01:16 PM
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New ARA Factory rifle list



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ARA Factory rifle list and rules for the upcoming indoor season. Repeaters only and the Rem 540 & 541’s are gone.

https://www.americanrimfire.com/medi...9-15-20(1).pdf

https://www.americanrimfire.com/medi...RA2020ver7.pdf
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Old 09-16-2020, 02:27 PM
analretentive

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list

Looks like the winner in St. Louis (Rem 540) will be excluded next year. The list also does not include CZ 457.

Gerry
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:47 PM
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Please Re-read.
"ARA Factory Class consists of magazine or tube fed rifles currently in production with a MSRP of Less than $1,000. Rifles not currently in production must be on this list to be approved for use in the ARA Factory class. If you have a rifle that you would like added to this list, please fill out the Factory Rifle Approval Form and email to [email protected]"

It is not on the list because it is current production. The list is only for not current production rifles.
Note that the Christensen isn't on the list either because it is current production.
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Old 09-16-2020, 05:19 PM
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457

I'm an idiot. It looks like the 457 is going to be the rifle to beat. I was hoping my 452's or Ruger Target/Varmint would have a chance; but not against a near match chamber.

Gerry
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Old 09-16-2020, 05:49 PM
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If you do some serious looking around you will think twice about throwing your 452's under the bus.
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
If you do some serious looking around you will think twice about throwing your 452's under the bus.
I love my 452s. But; do you think a very good 452 can compete with a very good MTR? I guess I'll find out.

Gerry
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:06 PM
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Nationwide from what I hear the 452 is the one to beat. Most 2500's, etc.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analretentive View Post
I love my 452s. But; do you think a very good 452 can compete with a very good MTR? I guess I'll find out.

Gerry
It will and has so I wouldn't be too worried about that. If one really looks at it, what is needed is a rifle that will shoot approx 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. With good ammo, that should be feasible for a lot of factory rifles. We are talking 1" outside to outside edge of the bullet at 50 yards. Not all that hard with a good rifle.

Learn to read wind a bit and have a "good" rifle and you can shoot well. I would argue that all you have to do is look at how many 2500's are shot in Factory and it can easily be said that the target is simply too easy.

I would have liked to see them keep the same target for both classes and have the factory class be able to continually have something to shoot for (meaning it's always nice to have a record to break). They felt it was more important for people to score high and feel good. Problem is a 2500 doesn't really mean much.

Last edited by Hozzie; 09-16-2020 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:45 PM
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Nationwide

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Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
Nationwide from what I hear the 452 is the one to beat. Most 2500's, etc.
I'd be thankful if you could point me to where I can see those results. I don't see equipment lists for the smaller venues. I was remarking on the St Louis shoot. 5 457s and no 452s.
Anyway, I'm going to take a 452 and 7044 to Slick's in November, and see what happens.

Gerry

Last edited by analretentive; 09-16-2020 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:53 PM
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Analretentive, your not an idiot, you like many others simply misread something. No harm no foul...
If I were to shoot factory with a CZ there is no doubt it would be a 452 because of the 2 lug bolt and the heavy firing pin design. And it would be an early 452, because of the better QC then. That "match chamber" they hype is great if it is perfectly cut but if it is a little off or the lead is smeared there is no advantage. I see it more as a marketing tool.

Hozzie, I agree the Factory 2500 may be a little to easy and a "feal good target" but so is a 250 in IR 50. Factory, being a starter class, it may be a good thing.
Glen H
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hozzie View Post
It will and has so I wouldn't be too worried about that. If one really looks at it, what is needed is a rifle that will shoot approx 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. With good ammo, that should be feasible for a lot of factory rifles. We are talking 1" outside to outside edge of the bullet at 50 yards. Not all that hard with a good rifle.

Learn to read wind a bit and have a "good" rifle and you can shoot well. I would argue that all you have to do is look at how many 2500's are shot in Factory and it can easily be said that the target is simply too easy.

I would have liked to see them keep the same target for both classes and have the factory class be able to continually have something to shoot for (meaning it's always nice to have a record to break). They felt it was more important for people to score high and feel good. Problem is a 2500 doesn't really mean much.
Howie,

This is true a new shooter wants a good score. when our club switched from the RBA to the IBS 50 RFBR. we got more shooters, however IMO the target was way too easy 749-750 were the norm for UL class.
what I did was to try and place the shot center as the bull is about the same size as the ARA UL target. doing this did help when I shot sanctioned ARA, I think being creative a shooter can still use the easier target to gain the experience to move up. go for the center or X and IMO you will learn and be able to shoot the harder target.

Lee
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:08 PM
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factory

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghgs View Post
Analretentive, your not an idiot, you like many others simply misread something. No harm no foul...
If I were to shoot factory with a CZ there is no doubt it would be a 452 because of the 2 lug bolt and the heavy firing pin design. And it would be an early 452, because of the better QC then. That "match chamber" they hype is great if it is perfectly cut but if it is a little off or the lead is smeared there is no advantage. I see it more as a marketing tool.

Hozzie, I agree the Factory 2500 may be a little to easy and a "feal good target" but so is a 250 in IR 50. Factory, being a starter class, it may be a good thing.
Glen H
My 452 American is 2002. Does that qualify as older? I have been practicing with unlimited targets, and that's pretty depresssing. Personally, I can't wait to start on the "Feel good" targets.

Gerry
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghgs View Post
Analretentive, your not an idiot, you like many others simply misread something. No harm no foul...
If I were to shoot factory with a CZ there is no doubt it would be a 452 because of the 2 lug bolt and the heavy firing pin design. And it would be an early 452, because of the better QC then. That "match chamber" they hype is great if it is perfectly cut but if it is a little off or the lead is smeared there is no advantage. I see it more as a marketing tool.

Hozzie, I agree the Factory 2500 may be a little to easy and a "feal good target" but so is a 250 in IR 50. Factory, being a starter class, it may be a good thing.
Glen H
Hi Glen,

Hope the back is better. Missed seeing you at Nationals.

An IR5050 10 ring is .250, so you need roughly a .71" outside to outside group for a 250. While common with unlimited guns, I am not sure it would be so easy with a factory gun on a regular basis, but doable for sure. An unlimited ARA would definitely be harder.

I guess my main point was that there are probably quite a few guns that can be very competitive in factory class if the shooters learn or know how to read the wind a bit with the size of the 100 ring being what it is.

Last edited by Hozzie; 09-16-2020 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:21 PM
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Is the target too easy? Perhaps for you or any practiced and experienced shooter. But, unless I misunderstand things, the purpose of the new factory class is to get more shooters to the range. Secondary goal must be to keep them coming. IMO, the easier target helps to accomplish that goal. The hope is that the individual will want to improve their skills (and maybe equipment) and graduate to the more difficult target. In MY experience, presenting the more or most difficult targets to new shooters leads them to believe that they and their equipment aren't capable and you have seen them for the last time. To be dismissive of the factory target and the shooters who may be doing well on that target only promotes the image of snobbery in the BR shooting ranks and serves to defeat the original stated purpose. Just my $.02 worth if it has any value to anyone other than myself.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldshot50 View Post
Is the target too easy? Perhaps for you or any practiced and experienced shooter. But, unless I misunderstand things, the purpose of the new factory class is to get more shooters to the range. Secondary goal must be to keep them coming. IMO, the easier target helps to accomplish that goal. The hope is that the individual will want to improve their skills (and maybe equipment) and graduate to the more difficult target. In MY experience, presenting the more or most difficult targets to new shooters leads them to believe that they and their equipment aren't capable and you have seen them for the last time. To be dismissive of the factory target and the shooters who may be doing well on that target only promotes the image of snobbery in the BR shooting ranks and serves to defeat the original stated purpose. Just my $.02 worth if it has any value to anyone other than myself.
Fair enough. I am not one who thinks everyone needs to agree with me. However, I don't think it's snobbish. I simply see it as a different perspective.

I see it a bit like running the quarter mile. I am not a racer, but in general I don't think they use a shorter track with the intention to make those running different classes have a better time. You simply compare yourself against those others in your class.

My contention when it started was simply that there would be a generalized baseline of a Factory Class score created as people started to shoot it. That may have been 1600, but if you are a new shooter and you shoot 1400, you still have a reference of how you are doing. What it also would have done is allowed a "high" score to be set and give every factory class shooter something to shoot for as they got better. You would have a couple of different records to shoot for so to speak. It would have also really allowed someone to really see how they were progressing overall. Once you can shoot multiple 2500's in a match, how do you know you are getting any better?

The other upside I was concerned with at the time was another target for a Match Director to have to score. Using one kept things consistent and easier. We now have the scoring program for Factory so it isn't as big of deal, but again, just another perspective.

I am not saying my view is correct, just that it had some reasons behind it. They chose another way and that is ok. Wasn't meant to be demeaning to anyone. I just want new shooters to realize that it's probably more important to focus on learning to read the wind, use flags, etc than the actual gun they fret over using. More return on their time investment so to speak.

Last edited by Hozzie; 09-16-2020 at 09:47 PM.
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