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New M&P 15-22 with Issues

26K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  cmb1 
#1 ·
I have a new M&P 15-22, and it's having some issues.

First and foremost, the thing stovepipes frequently, about 1-3 times for every 5 shots. It's beyond annoying. I initially assumed it might be a break-in issue, but we've shot about 300-400 rounds through it now, and it hasn't gotten any better. It happens with multiple types/brands of ammo, including Federal Auto-Match, CCI AR Tactical, CCI Mini-Mag HP, and Federal 510. We've mostly shot Federal Auto-Match and CCI AR Tactical, and it happens noticeably more often with the Auto-Match, but it does happen with the CCI, too. We only have 1 mag right now, so I can't rule out a mag issue. It can happen with any round in the magazine (i.e. it's not just the first or last round, etc.). Yes, we cleaned & lubed it before first use. Yes, it's been cleaned & lubed after each trip to the range. Yes, it happens to everyone who shoots it. I'm familiar with pistols and bolt guns, but this is our first AR-style gun, so maybe I'm just not lubing some important spot, but the manual doesn't give any helpful advice on exactly what needs lube, so any suggestions are welcome.

Second, the bolt stays back after the last round most of the time, but not always. I'd say, maybe 1 out of 5 times, it doesn't stay back. It's not a huge problem, but it's not right. Any idea what would cause this to happen, but only occasionally?

Third, the grip handle is loose. I stuck a 3/16" hex wrench down there and turned the hex head screw that you can see, but it didn't make any difference. I'm guessing that the nut on the other side is just spinning, too, which is why it's not getting tighter, but I can't see the other side, so I'm just guessing; maybe the threads are stripped. And idea how to tighten the handle?

I bought this primarily for my son, as the first gun that's actually for him. He's being a good sport about it, but you can tell that he's deeply disappointed that it's having so many issues. We went to the range today, and the M&P 15-22, despite being the "cool, new gun", got the least attention, because, well, who wants to use a gun that jams every 2-3 rounds?

Any suggestions or assistance with this would be much appreciated. Should I send it back to Smith & Wesson? Any thoughts on their service reputation and / or turn-around time? Do they pay shipping?

In case it matters, it's a "state compliant" model, with the 10-round long magazine, fixed stock, and no brake/hider/comp on the end of the barrel.
 
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#9 ·
I have ordered another mag (a 10-round short), but it hasn't been delivered yet. I'm very tempted to try it before I send it back, just to eliminate the mag as the source of the stovepipes (and/or the failure to lock back after the last round). But I'll be calling S&W about it today or tomorrow, so I might send it back before the new mag arrives.

Thanks for the suggestion, and the advice about oiling. I'm generally a less-is-more-with-oil-in-my-guns guy, but I'm willing to learn, if the 15-22 is different.
 
#4 ·
You probably just have a magazine problem, or you might be able to bend the extractor and get the gun to work, but since the screw in the grip spins freely, the hole in the receiver is probably stripped. That alone is reason enough to send it back. There is no nut that it screws into. You will also probably get a replacement rifle, unless they decide to helicoil it.

I would call them for an RMA. When you talk to them, tell them you bought a new rifle and make sure they understand it has multiple problems. You don't want to send it in and they fix the extraction problems, and send it back with the loose grip. Make sure they know the screw spins freely and make sure they understand to fix both of your problems.

I sent one of the early ones in because it shot extremely low. I had 18 clicks adjustment on the front sight and it still needed a few more, but my tool wouldn't fit any further in the hole and allow me to spin the sight. I told them I was sending it in for shooting low, and all they did was replace all the springs and extractor to the latest parts, and sent it back, still shooting low. That was when they had upgraded the springs and extractor because the first few guns were blowing their extractors out. Or maybe it was an ejector.
 
#11 ·
You probably just have a magazine problem, or you might be able to bend the extractor and get the gun to work, but since the screw in the grip spins freely, the hole in the receiver is probably stripped. That alone is reason enough to send it back. There is no nut that it screws into. You will also probably get a replacement rifle, unless they decide to helicoil it.

I would call them for an RMA. When you talk to them, tell them you bought a new rifle and make sure they understand it has multiple problems.
Thank you for the info about the grip screw and how it attaches.
Thank you also for the advice when talking to S&W Service; good to know.
All good advice, and much appreciated.
 
#8 ·
Sorry for the delay in responding, yesterday was crazy at work.

It's stovepiping the empty cases. As far as I can tell, it feeds fine from the magazine into the chamber. It's just that, after it fires, the bolt catches the empty casing. Sometimes they are the classic stovepipe (where one end of the shell sticking out, and the other end is crushed between the bolt and the breech). And sometimes the casing is caught lengthwise (where the back of the case is against the bolt, and the mouth of the case is against the back of the barrel).

I suspect that it's an issue with the extractor or ejector, but I'm totally new to this gun, and also totally new to AR-style guns in general, so I really have no experience to go on.
 
#6 ·
Make sure the extractor is still in place!

My normally very reliable 15-22 started having the occasional stovepipe (1 every second or third magazine) and after the third or fourth one I took a close look at the bolt and the extractor, plunger & spring were missing. Didn't notice anything obvious like a blown out case before the problem started. I replaced the extractor, plunger & spring and haven't had any more problems in the last 10K rounds.

Nolan
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check the extractor tonight. Just out of curiosity, should the hook of the extractor be flush with, or a little in front of the bolt face when the bolt is retracted? My recollection is that mine seemed farther back than I would have expected (nearly flush), based on other .22LR guns I have. I did a quick search for 15-22 extractor images, but didn't see one that showed clearly how far the hook is from the bolt face.
 
#7 ·
I probably have 7 or 8K rounds through mine, more than half were automatch and I can count on one hand the failures. I did have one factory 25 rd mag that gave me a few issues when new but worked itself out. Sorry you're having issues, I'd send it back.
 
#12 ·
Also you don't need to clean it that often. I used one in Steel Challenge and Ruger Rimfire for 4 years and never had an issue. I cleaned it every 1k-2k rounds at most.
As for your problem check to see if the extractor, plunger, and spring are still in the bolt as was mentioned by Nolan. That sounds exactly like what would happen if it was lost. I have seen that happen.
 
#13 ·
I don't clean the bore regularly, but I do brush and mop the chamber after several hundred rounds. I have read a few stories about OOB discharges with them, and the resultant loss of the extractor, and broken mags. If you check, you will see that the hammer will release way before the bolt is fully in battery.
 
#17 ·
UPDATE: It took longer than I would have liked (they received the gun on 12/16/15), but today (1/18/16) Smith & Wesson customer service called me, to tell me that they are going to replace the gun.

Well, technically, he said they are "replacing the frame", and he said it was "basically a new gun". I assume that by "frame" he meant the lower receiver. I specifically asked if they were replacing the action to address the stovepipe issues, and he said yes.

This is additional hassle for me, because instead of having it shipped back to me directly, they have to ship it to an FFL, and I have to go there and fill out paperwork and pay the transfer fee, and then I have to submit paperwork to S&W to get them to reimburse me for the transfer fee... but at this point, it is what it is. At least they're trying to make it right.

I haven't received it yet (and it'll probably be another week or more before I do), so I cannot confirm or deny that all the issues have been resolved, but I've got my fingers crossed.
 
#19 ·
Sorry to hear about your M&P. I was looking to buy the new sport 2 about a week ago but found the ruger M4 on sale for $299 plus $10 shipping so I bought the ruger. Still in the box. But I will try it out soon. I live in Mississippi in a rural area so I can shoot anytime on my land. I bought a new ruger 10/22 breakdown about a week ago also. Have had several 10/22,s back in the 70,s. Great guns!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
Ok. Now I've lost my patience with Smith & Wesson. Talked to them on Thursday 1/21, so see if they had sent the gun out yet. They had been playing phone tag with the FFL. I got them talking on the phone, and my FFL said that they had gotten his info. So it should be sent out soon... right?

Well, I called today (Feb 1), and they claimed they were still waiting on the FFL information. After 15 minutes of questioning and looking they figured out that the FFL information was actually ok. I was pretty annoyed that it just sat idle with them for a week and a half, until I called and prodded them. But it's going to get sent out today then... right?

Well, it turns out (only revealed after I started asking more questions) that they haven't even looked at the other problems (stovepiping & bolt stay open after last round) yet. Once they determined that it needed a new lower receiver, they called me for FFL info. They couldn't even "assign" a new lower to my gun until they had an FFL to send it to. (What? Why? Did they really think I wasn't going to be able to come up with a valid FFL to mail it to? Really? It's a brand new gun... how about the Smith & Wesson dealer I bought it from just a few weeks before I sent it back to them?) And now it's taken them 2 weeks to "clear up" the FFL information. And NOW it's going to be assigned a new lower receiver, and then go back to the gunsmiths to address the other issues... so I'm still probably weeks away from getting it back.

And it wasn't at all reassuring that, when I told the customer service guy that I wasn't happy that they've had the gun since Dec 16th, and all they've done so far is decide that it needs a new lower receiver and get an FFL license to mail it to, his response was "that's not really that long".

To say that I'm ****ed at Smith & Wesson for the way they've handled this is an understatement. I'm having a really hard time imagining a scenario where I ever buy one of their guns again.
 
#23 · (Edited)
...And it wasn't at all reassuring that, when I told the customer service guy that I wasn't happy that they've had the gun since Dec 16th, and all they've done so far is decide that it needs a new lower receiver and get an FFL license to mail it to, his response was "that's not really that long".

To say that I'm ****ed at Smith & Wesson for the way they've handled this is an understatement. I'm having a really hard time imagining a scenario where I ever buy one of their guns again.
I thought that was B.S & it is, according to ATF.
https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. §§ 1715).

Firearms shipped to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient's State of residence. FFLs may also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A).

If it has a new serial number, it is the responsibility of S&W to record the fact in their required "bound book".

Tell them if they don't abide by the law, you will report it to ATF. Better yet, I would insist on a whole new gun or a full refund. Probably need to go higher up the chain of command, ask for a supervisor.

I was thinking of getting the 15-22 #10208, just released last month. Now, I will wait & probably do nothing. I have 3 AR15/22's.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I get the impression S&W cannot keep up with demand. it seems like an on going general industry shortage. Every time Obamma starts crying on TV or some horrific shooting take place the back orders double up. Some of the Sport II are selling at full sticker price and still the shelves are bare. Normal street price is 150 below sticker and many dealer are months behind on getting those in. I bet the QC suffers and that means more CS returns. They must be busy as heck. I am just wild guessing that if they are pushing the limits and the more they push the father behind the QC & customer service gets.The stuff looks cheap to build with very little fit and finish to worry about. Not that it seems to help, but I bet profits are soaring. The tricky part is if a maker over expands and the demands fall back to normal they can suffer some big losses.

There seems to be no shortage of the real expansive brands or upscale S&W but the econo models such as Ruger and SW II guns are often sold before they arrive at LGS or gone in a day from the big box LGS like Bass Pro, etc...

I was in one gun shops and they love Obamma. They are selling black guns like wild fire. I though they were closing shop. NO! Just cleaned out after that Obamma speech.

Just my perspective, no one seems real happy with the situation. I have seen a fair number of the black 22 rf look alike from whom ever. The backorder maybe certain hot models in 223. This type of shooting may explain the 22lr shortages. Image it is pretty easy to shoot a couple a bricks in an afternoon just pulling the trigger as fast a some hyper active kit can manage. Now they need a speed loader!

We got an election and possible 8 more years of opposition rule. That and more and more right and left coast states imposing limitations that require builders to offer special cosmetic versions.
 
#26 ·
I get the impression S&W cannot keep up with demand. it seems like an on going general industry shortage. Every time Obamma starts crying on TV or some horrific shooting take place the back orders double up. Some of the Sport II are selling at full sticker price and still the shelves are bare. Normal street price is 150 below sticker and many dealer are months behind on getting those in. I bet the QC suffers and that means more CS returns. They must be busy as heck. I am just wild guessing that if they are pushing the limits and the more they push the father behind the QC & customer service gets.The stuff looks cheap to build with very little fit and finish to worry about. Not that it seems to help, but I bet profits are soaring. The tricky part is if a maker over expands and the demands fall back to normal they can suffer some big losses.

There seems to be no shortage of the real expansive brands or upscale S&W but the econo models such as Ruger and SW II guns are often sold before they arrive at LGS or gone in a day from the big box LGS like Bass Pro, etc...

I was in one gun shops and they love Obamma. They are selling black guns like wild fire. I though they were closing shop. NO! Just cleaned out after that Obamma speech.

Just my perspective, no one seems real happy with the situation. I have seen a fair number of the black 22 rf look alike from whom ever. The backorder maybe certain hot models in 223. This type of shooting may explain the 22lr shortages. Image it is pretty easy to shoot a couple a bricks in an afternoon just pulling the trigger as fast a some hyper active kit can manage. Now they need a speed loader!

We got an election and possible 8 more years of opposition rule. That and more and more right and left coast states imposing limitations that require builders to offer special cosmetic versions.
The mods have asked several times that people refrain from posting political content on the board.

In either case, what does that all have to do with the availability of the 15-22? A quick look shows several variants in stock at over 13 vendors, and plenty more at the distributor level. 22 ammo is also in stock at every local gun shop and pawn shop.

Also, a local dealer advertises he has 90 of the Sport II in stock. I saw an original Sport at another dealer about two days ago. It's been there over two months, and another dealer is advertising Ruger AR556 in stock on Armslist.
 
#29 ·
any updates from the OP? hopefully you and your son are out at the range with a functioning 15-22. when they work right (which is ALMOST always) they are a blast! hopefully neither of you have been discouraged with your experience so far, and give it a fair chance when its returned. hopefully S&W will make things right and throw in a couple extra mags or something.
 
#30 ·
It's back

An update from the OP (that's me)...

When I called on 2/15, the S&W Customer Service guy was nice enough, but said that it wasn't clear what the current status of my gun was. After about 5 minutes on hold, he said that he talked to his supervisor, and she was going to "kick some shins" to try to get it moved through the process more promptly. Needless to say, I wasn't very happy with that. It seems like nothing happens until I call to check on my gun.

However, (a despite being told numerous times that S&W would contact me when work on it was completed), I received a call from my FFL on Tuesday 2/23, that he had received the gun. I called S&W Customer Service to ask for details on what they had done to the gun (in particular, I wanted to make sure that they at least attempted to address the stovepiping issues, and didn't just replace the lower receiver and call it done). The customer service guy was kind of a jerk. He just kept saying "All I can see is that they replaced the lower receiver." He clearly did not want to make any effort to find out if they did anything else. After several minutes of back and forth about it, he said that he would have "his guy" run up to the repair shop tomorrow and find out more details, and call me back the next morning.

I wasn't holding my breath on getting a call back, and S&W did not come through and surprise me. No call back. So the following day I called them, and got a really helpful customer service guy. He was able (by looking at the new serial number also, I think) to determine that the repair shop had indeed "adjusted the extractor" and "fully function-tested" the gun. He was also able to help me get started with my paperwork to get reimbursed for the FFL transfer fee. His name was Mike Delmonte, and he was great. If you call S&W Customer Service and get "Mike", consider yourself lucky.

Having the gun in hand, but not yet at the range, all I could really confirm is that the handle is tight now.

Oh, and I could tell that they had fired it, because it was clean when we sent it in, and it came back dirty (I didn't expect it to come back clean enough to eat off of, but would wiping it off and running one patch through the bore after function testing kill them, especially knowing that it would not be fired again for at least a week or two?).

So, my son and I had a chance to take it to the range over the weekend, and GREAT NEWS...

The gun ran flawlessly. We tried about 100 rounds of Federal Auto Match and another 70 rounds of CCI AR Tactical, and it never once stovepiped, and the bolt stayed open upon mag-empty every time (even when only putting a single round in the mag). It worked great with both magazines (while the gun was out, I received the 10-round "short" mag that I had ordered).

While I cannot determine whether or not they replaced the barrel or anything else that would affect accuracy, it does seem like the gun is noticeably more accurate now. My son blew out the bullseye at 25 yards, with only a couple shots not in the black. I tried the single-shot-per-bullseye test on a target with 16 bullseyes that are about 2 inches in diameter, and I hit the black on 15 of the 16 at 25 yards while resting it on a sandbag, which is probably the best I can do with iron sights and my far-from-perfect eyesight, especially with cheap ammo. I didn't save any targets from before, but my recollection is that accuracy was previously ok, but not particularly good. Now it's pretty good.

So, I'm pretty happy with the gun itself now (assuming that the reliability we saw this weekend holds up in the future), but I can't say that my opinion of Smith & Wesson as a company is particularly good, and I think that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. So, I still can't imagine a scenario where I buy another one of their guns, since there are so many other viable options available these days.
 
#32 ·
Glad u got it back. :). I know your son is happy.
Yes he is. When we were done shooting it, I asked him if the gun was fun to shoot, and he got a big smile on his face and said that it is.

It certainly has not been a great "my first gun" experience for him, but if it continues to run reliably in the future, he should get years of enjoyment from it, and this will all just be a story to tell about it.
 
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