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  #46  
Old 07-31-2021, 07:34 PM
jqunac

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Thank you for that forthright reply a refreshing respite from the petty snipers. I haven't posted here much in the past few years and things seem to have gone down hill a bit.

I like to think of tuning as minimizing muzzle movement at the moment the bullet exits but it's like quantum mechanics, it just works yet few if anyone truly know why.

So we were discussing rifle rests when someone says you have to have adjustable front and rear rests to compensate for the barrel angle change relative to the target. Don't ask I'm not sure what they were talking about. Then Hi-NV Shooter likes to contradict almost anything I say, it must personal, though he is cagey and rarely fleshes out a complete thought process.
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  #47  
Old 07-31-2021, 07:34 PM
Signmaster
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And yet the rear roller seems the least discussed matter on a thread about rear rollers.

Just about anything causes pressure changes, and anything that doesn't pivot as one will cause it. A roller that was attached to the bench but could rotate with the movement of the rifle could work... but then physical touch comes into play as well.

Bags will bind on rotation of the front of the rifle to some degree, but short of precise positioning of everything involved the game is never going to be perfect.


As for tuning, it seems it comes up in so many threads it just gets beat to death. The discussion/dialogue/debate continues to derail many of those threads. What every happened to the days of thinking those with higher scores (with similar hardware) might have figured some things out better than others?
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  #48  
Old 07-31-2021, 07:58 PM
jqunac

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Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
And yet the rear roller seems the least discussed matter on a thread about rear rollers.

Just about anything causes pressure changes, and anything that doesn't pivot as one will cause it. A roller that was attached to the bench but could rotate with the movement of the rifle could work... but then physical touch comes into play as well.

Bags will bind on rotation of the front of the rifle to some degree, but short of precise positioning of everything involved the game is never going to be perfect.


As for tuning, it seems it comes up in so many threads it just gets beat to death. The discussion/dialogue/debate continues to derail many of those threads. What every happened to the days of thinking those with higher scores (with similar hardware) might have figured some things out better than others?
Yeah, who brought up tuning anyway?

I think a lot of things that get talked to death have much less to do with bullet poi than that puff of wind that didn't show on the flags if you have a reasonable set-up.
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  #49  
Old 07-31-2021, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by igolfat8 View Post
I am not an experienced BR shooter so consider my inexperience when answering my question? Why do we see mostly rear Protector ear bags? Why wouldn’t one use a roller in back to allow more freedom of movement of the rear of the rifle or is this a bad thing resulting in poor accuracy?
As often seems to happen (I guess it's the nature of the beast), this thread seems to have drifted off in a number of directions. My initial post was in direct response to your question concerning roller rests and was taking into account that you stated that you were not an experienced bench rest shooter. One thing I will add about my purpose in experimenting with a roller rest was to try to achieve more consistent recoil. The roller offers minimum friction to the sliding of the stock while allowing the stock to track backwards on recoil in a more consistent manner. Consistent recoil is critical to wringing the best accuracy from your setup. In my own personal experience, I found that my roller rest did a better job of giving consistent recoil over shooting off a bag. Hence I eliminated bags front and rear. It worked for me, but is not the only way to achieve the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911nut View Post
If the roller assembly could pivot with light friction seems like that would keep the stock centered in the rollers. Nice job on the rear rest setup Pump.
I'm sure you noticed that this thing was cobbled together from stuff I had around the place. Plywood, wheels from the kid's old roller blades, etc. Not fancy, not expensive, but it worked for me and only took about an hour to throw together. I agree with your thinking about keeping the stock centered on the rollers...in fact, I found that if I did not, it impacted consistent accuracy. But moving the front rest as I tracked from bullseye to bullseye on a target inevitably introduced a small amount of misalignment with the rear rollers.


Originally Posted by Penage Guy:
The static nature of the rear rest can become a factor influencing POI when a front rest is adjusted for a number of targets.

From Savage Nut:
[I]That’s where this thread has gone, any suggestions? How do you deal with it?

Good question....

Last edited by pump .22s; 07-31-2021 at 08:14 PM.
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  #50  
Old 08-01-2021, 12:24 AM
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Here is my set up I made a plate to bolt to the front that is 3 inches wide I modified the front rest to adjust and cut the rear stock to be parallel to the front
Don


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  #51  
Old 08-01-2021, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911nut View Post
Thatís where this thread has gone, any suggestions? How do you deal with it?
You can try putting the target at various heights to see what the rifles like best as far as angle.

My rifles likes the target to be about 36" centered from the ground.

Lee
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  #52  
Old 08-01-2021, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Donnelson View Post
Here is my set up I made a plate to bolt to the front that is 3 inches wide I modified the front rest to adjust and cut the rear stock to be parallel to the front
Don


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Nice 54, what tuner is on it?

Lee
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  #53  
Old 08-01-2021, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911nut View Post
That’s where this thread has gone, any suggestions? How do you deal with it?
You can try putting the target at various heights to see what the rifles like best as far as angle.

My rifles likes the target to be about 36" centered from the ground.

Lee
Do you think the top shooters are worried about what height their target is? NO! Absolutely not, they hang it and shoot it. Lmao you guys are making this out to be way harder than it actually is. 🤣 this entire thread is laughable.
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  #54  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:00 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by Turbosam View Post
Do you think the top shooters are worried about what height their target is? NO! Absolutely not, they hang it and shoot it. Lmao you guys are making this out to be way harder than it actually is. 🤣 this entire thread is laughable.
Hey Sam, You do what the rifle likes. if you think the top shooters don't care, I doubt they would let someone else hang their target.

Would you let someone hang your target?

Lee
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  #55  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqunac View Post
Thank you for that forthright reply a refreshing respite from the petty snipers. I haven't posted here much in the past few years and things seem to have gone down hill a bit.

I like to think of tuning as minimizing muzzle movement at the moment the bullet exits but it's like quantum mechanics, it just works yet few if anyone truly know why.

So we were discussing rifle rests when someone says you have to have adjustable front and rear rests to compensate for the barrel angle change relative to the target. Don't ask I'm not sure what they were talking about. Then Hi-NV Shooter likes to contradict almost anything I say, it must personal, though he is cagey and rarely fleshes out a complete thought process.
You made it with your snide remarks on post 37 & 41, but so there is no doubt I don't think it was coffee you were drinking referencing post 30 probably post beer!
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  #56  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbosam View Post
Do you think the top shooters are worried about what height their target is? NO! Absolutely not, they hang it and shoot it. Lmao you guys are making this out to be way harder than it actually is. 🤣 this entire thread is laughable.
Actually, we are just sharing information. Why? Because it might actually prove useful, and we enjoy communicating with other shooters. And as with all things internet, one has to weed through the discussion for what one considers informative and useful and disregard the rest. This place is not just a technical manual where one goes for precise information only. It is intended for folks who enjoy rimfire rifles and who enjoy sharing information with each other that may or may not be of value.

And yes, these threads do tend to drift off topic into overly technical discussions, but that is the nature of things. I treat those I am not interested in like tv commercials; I ignore them.

And I respectfully disagree: experienced shooters that I know do spend a lot of time on the details over which they have some degree of control. And yes, some things we have no control over....like the geometry of the shooting range, but some things we do. For many of us, the real enjoyment is tinkering with the variables. What's the harm?

But if laughing at the rest of us makes you feel better.....

Last edited by pump .22s; 08-01-2021 at 07:54 AM.
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  #57  
Old 08-01-2021, 08:43 AM
jqunac

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Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
You made it with your snide remarks on post 37 & 41, but so there is no doubt I don't think it was coffee you were drinking referencing post 30 probably post beer!
A new day but it's the same old you. Put your ego back in the drawer and actually put some thought into your responses acting like some kind of internet guru just doesn't cut it. For example saying you hang your target at 36" means diddle without more detail, so pretentious.
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  #58  
Old 08-01-2021, 09:04 AM
Rick H.
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Quite some time ago I became interested in the thought of a rear roller rest instead of a sand bag rest. I found a member here that had a rear roller that he had started working with and gave up on the project, or went a different way. I bought what he had developed and continued on with the idea with some different components. I must confess someone else had posted some information about a roller rest several years ago and even made a few for members, but I was too late for that train. Interestingly enough he had toyed with a swivel head for his roller, but found no real difference in using the swivel head versus the stationary one.

To date I haven't experimented with mine as much as I should have, but one downfall to the roller rest I have is it is very sensitive to pressure although I have the hardest wheels on it I could find. At some point I may revisit the idea of making a swivel head for it using a flat bearing, but I don't want to get any lateral movement in the head, so a wide bearing would be best I think. I am no engineer and don't pretend to be one. I like to tinker with stuff to see if I can make it better, or at least work and this is one of those types of projects.

Randolph has a stand alone "V" shaped rear rest that swivels, but I don't believe I have ever read about anyone using one on this forum. I recently ordered one just to see how it works compared to my roller rest. Sometimes I think people go way overboard on the technical aspects of almost anything and start tearing their hair out trying to fix something that really isn't broke. If changing the angle of a rifle mounted in my roller changes POI to any noteworthy amount I haven't seen it, based on a normal target. My roller rest is extremely sensitive to pressure applied to it and I think it needs firmer rollers, but I have to work on this. Picture attached.

Rick H.
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File Type: jpg Reear Roller.jpg (103.5 KB, 84 views)
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  #59  
Old 08-01-2021, 09:20 AM
jqunac

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Nice work Rick H..

I'm assuming you mean downward pressure when speaking pressure so perhaps it slows recoil?

Also thinking delrin guides beveled to minimize angular changes and force or friction to replace the roller or the Randolph rear would be interesting.
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  #60  
Old 08-01-2021, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
You can try putting the target at various heights to see what the rifles like best as far as angle.

My rifles likes the target to be about 36" centered from the ground.

Lee
At my range the bench/target frames are such that I hang my target about 30” from the ground. Any higher I have to put a riser under the rear bag or the gun slides off the rest.

Yep, my rest/bench setup determines how I hang the target.
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