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Old 06-09-2021, 09:20 PM
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Can anyone explain why a bench rest rifle needs a stock with cast



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My CZ 457 Varmint MTR has cast off. Nowhere have I seen this mentioned on CZ’s website. Why would you need this on a bench rest rifle? I understand why it is necessary on a shotgun but not a bench rest gun.

Last edited by Hicksville Kid; 06-10-2021 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:55 PM
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Maybe because it's not a purpose built benchrest rifle. For a rifle designed or meant to be mostly shot off your shoulder or off a bipod a little cast-off would be ok. Not so with a rifle designed to be shot mostly off sand bags. BR rifles with perfectly straight and parallel stocks will ride the bags better. Especially important if one is shooting their rifle free-recoil.
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
My CZ 457 Varmint MTR has cast off. Nowhere have I seen this mentioned on CZ’s website. Why would you need this?
cast off, for a right handed shooter, cast on for a left handed shooter. the late great yogi berraa onced asked. "doesn't anyone know how to play this game".... marty

ps; it's how you look down the barrel to sights....

Last edited by earnest; 06-09-2021 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
My CZ 457 Varmint MTR has cast off. Nowhere have I seen this mentioned on CZ’s website. Why would you need this?
cast was first introduced in shotguns, the idea was to look where your shooting, primarily with say ringneck and other birds of prey.cast does not and should not be used in rimfire bench or other target shooting venues. the idea is for game hunting only. mainly for moving prey, righties and leftys see foul and other prey a little different down the barrel..marty
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:27 PM
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kid, have to think about this overnight, think righties tend to shoot left high, lefties low right on birds and such....... not certain, have to think about this...marty
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earnest View Post
cast off, for a right handed shooter, cast on for a left handed shooter. the late great yogi berraa onced asked. "doesn't anyone know how to play this game".... marty

ps; it's how you look down the barrel to sights....
Quote:
Originally Posted by earnest View Post
cast was first introduced in shotguns, the idea was to look where your shooting, primarily with say ringneck and other birds of prey.cast does not and should not be used in rimfire bench or other target shooting venues. the idea is for game hunting only. mainly for moving prey, righties and leftys see foul and other prey a little different down the barrel..marty
Thanks for the reply’s. I phrased the question incorrectly. I’ll go back and and edit that. As a Trap shooter I understand why cast is necessary. My Browning 12 ga over and under has cast off as does the MTR. I just can’t understand why it would be in a bench rest rifle. Nothing on the CZ site mentions it and none of the reviews mention it and I looked at quite a few. My CZ 453 is as straight as an arrow and doesn’t move sideways in recoil like the MTR does without a death grip. It’s hard to be consistent with a grip like that. As for hunting with it…it’s a nine pound gun with a scope.

I’m just frustrated with the inconsistency. CZ support couldn’t give me any information other than to suggest that I buy an after market stock. “Perhaps a Boyds” was the response.

Sorry for the venting.

Mike
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Old 06-10-2021, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by earnest View Post
cast off, for a right handed shooter, cast on for a left handed shooter. the late great yogi berraa onced asked. "doesn't anyone know how to play this game".... marty

ps; it's how you look down the barrel to sights....
Quote:
Originally Posted by earnest View Post
cast was first introduced in shotguns, the idea was to look where your shooting, primarily with say ringneck and other birds of prey.cast does not and should not be used in rimfire bench or other target shooting venues. the idea is for game hunting only. mainly for moving prey, righties and leftys see foul and other prey a little different down the barrel..marty
Thanks for the reply’s. I phrased the question incorrectly. I’ll go back and and edit that. As a Trap shooter I understand why cast is necessary. My Browning 12 ga over and under has cast off as does the MTR. I just can’t understand why it would be in a bench rest rifle. Nothing on the CZ site mentions it and none of the reviews mention it and I looked at quite a few. My CZ 453 is as straight as an arrow and doesn’t move sideways in recoil like the MTR does without a death grip. It’s hard to be consistent with a grip like that. As for hunting with it…it’s a nine pound gun with a scope.

I’m just frustrated with the inconsistency. CZ support couldn’t give me any information other than to suggest that I buy an after market stock. “Perhaps a Boyds” was the response.

Sorry for the venting.

Mike
First and foremost the cz is not a dedicated benchrest rifle and was never intended to be such. True br rigs don't have cast, so who cares what cz is doing.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:18 AM
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So is the stock warped? Or cut that way on purpose? Is the inletting put in on a diagonal? I would think cast would be a planned / engineered design feature.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:54 AM
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Since the point of cast off (for right handers) is to help align your eye with the scope when shooting, why would you not want a stock with cast off for shooting bench rest? All the stocks I've made over the years have all had anywhere from 3/8"- 1/2" of cast off, depending on the cheekpiece planned, action, and shooter and I've never seen anything in any reference book to not include cast off in a bench rest stock...

I used to find Win 52's in LGS on the shelves from early benchrest shooters and many of them had the cheekpiece area scooped out for the shooters' face to rest and align with the scope... I assume this would equate to the same effect as having cast off?

Bob
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BobSc View Post
Since the point of cast off (for right handers) is to help align your eye with the scope when shooting, why would you not want a stock with cast off for shooting bench rest? All the stocks I've made over the years have all had anywhere from 3/8"- 1/2" of cast off, depending on the cheekpiece planned, action, and shooter and I've never seen anything in any reference book to not include cast off in a bench rest stock...

I used to find Win 52's in LGS on the shelves from early benchrest shooters and many of them had the cheekpiece area scooped out for the shooters' face to rest and align with the scope... I assume this would equate to the same effect as having cast off?

Bob
Hey Bob, the "cast" we are talking about here affects the way the rifle acts on the rear sandbag upon recoil, NOT about what is used to improve or aid with eye alignment. If there is cast built in to a stock, and that rifle is used for bench rest and shot off a rear bag, I believe the cast will tend to make the rifle track right-to-left or left-to right upon recoil. This is dependent on whether the stock (hence, the cast) was made for a right, or a left handed shooter. A stock built without cast will tend to track directly backward upon the shot. I hope that makes sense...
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:02 PM
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I was interested so did some investigating. It looks like someone on Rimfirecentral has a remedy

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1200491


since it seems this causes accuracy problems, what type of rear bag are you all using for the MTR ? or are you putting it in a different stock like the Boyd At One.

* edit - I just found the rear bag post

Last edited by rimfirerobbo; 06-10-2021 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:29 PM
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Since it was most assuredly done on purpose by CZ, I suspect they could tell you if you're willing to give them a call. Off hand, I'd venture to guess it has something to do with being able to get the bolt out of the gun without removing the stock. Just guessing....
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:49 PM
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BobSC,

Many, if not the majority, of purpose-built rimfire BR rifles are shot free-recoil, where the only part of the shooter's body that touches the rifle is the tip of their trigger finger. Either one cranes their neck over the stock (without touching it) to align their eye with the scope or off-set scope rings are used. I just mounted my scopes with very high mounts and craned/hovered my head over the stock.

The goal for a BR stock shot free-recoil is that when the rifle recoils back that the cross-hairs stay on the dot (center) of the target. This is why straight stocks and stocks where the bottom of the forend and bottom of the buttstock are parallel with each other are popular in rimfire BR.

If one is shooting their rifles with shoulder pressure on the butt plate and their hand on the pistol grip such that the stock/rifle is not allowed to move rearward, than having cast to the stock should not matter much, if at all.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:57 PM
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been awhile since my sporting days. your rifle is not a benchrest rifle...marty
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers...gun-fit-110302
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:14 PM
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bench for the most part is a new form of shooting. shooting for centuries is considered a 4 point system, that being. shoulder, cheek, trigger hand and support hand. marty
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