Precision face-off: Kid supergrade vs CPC with quality barrel threaded to recvr - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 09-21-2020, 12:57 PM
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Precision face-off: Kid supergrade vs CPC with quality barrel threaded to recvr



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Which receiver + barrel combo will have the greatest potential for precision, assuming all other mechanical factors (trigger, optimized bolt, ammo, optic) are the same?

A Kidd supergrade with their proprietary barrel interface and their best steel target barrel

or

A CPC job threading an equivalent quality target barrel (Federson, GM, Kidd, whatever) to an OEM receiver

Planning to add another accurized 10-22 to the fold, these are the 2 options I'm considering.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:12 PM
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I like the stock for the Kidd supergrade. But the heart of this question, in my opinion, is the barrel. Kidd is going to have the edge here. Just MHO of course.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:12 PM
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The Kidd Supergrade will be every bit as accurate as a comparable Kidd barrel threaded into an OEM receiver, with the added advantage of easy barrel swaps. It will probably be better, as it will be in a Kidd receiver, although CPC will true the OEM as much as possible.

I wanted a Victor Titan stock with my build, so I ordered a Kidd barreled action with all the goodies : 20" Match Stainless barrel, two stage (3/3oz) trigger, Kidd bolt and all the hardware. Got the stock and rear tang from Victor Company. I could not be more pleased with the result.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:24 PM
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Volquartsen used to use a coned bushing interface on the receiver for barrel fit. Not sure when they discontinued it but when I purchased a stainless receiver last year the coned bushing had been deleted and is just a hole.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:01 PM
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You should find one of these and give it a go.
Tap photo fo a nicer and sharper view.

Kidd Supergrade with screwed in 20 inch match barrel, rear tang, McMillan stock, and the 2 stage trigger.

Now that they have been replaced with the new detachable barrel system they have developed a cult following that always occurs when something is no longer available.

Is the new system as good, sure, but there will always be those who won't buy that.

Smooth

I will say that the stiffness of this stock, and the way it's bedded may very well give it an advantage over the new ones.

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 09-21-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoothtrigger View Post
You should find one of these and give it a go.
Tap photo fo a nicer and sharper view.

Kidd Supergrade with screwed in 20 inch match barrel, rear tang, McMillan stock, and the 2 stage trigger.

Now that they have been replaced with the new detachable barrel system they have developed a cult following that always occurs when something is no longer available.

Is the new system as good, sure, but there will always be those who won't buy that.

Smooth

I will say that the stiffness of this stock, and the way it's bedded may very well give it an advantage over the new ones.

Yep- I have both- and old SG with 20 fluted black SS .920 threaded in, and a newer SG with slip fit tenon. Unfortunately, the slip fit is an 18 LW, so a side by side comparison is moot. Still, Id give props to my old thread-in.

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Old 09-21-2020, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Yep- I have both- and old SG with 20 fluted black SS .920 threaded in, and a newer SG with slip fit tenon. Unfortunately, the slip fit is an 18 LW, so a side by side comparison is moot. Still, Id give props to my old thread-in.

DrGunner
I wonder if maybe then:

* Kidd classic slipfit receiver and heavy target barrel, but also,
* Let CPC thread it in.

Best of both worlds? Or overkill and unnecessary to get best precision?
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlt View Post
I wonder if maybe then:

* Kidd classic slipfit receiver and heavy target barrel, but also,
* Let CPC thread it in.

Best of both worlds? Or overkill and unnecessary to get best precision?
IMO threading to the Rec. is indeed overkill.. any KIDD barreled rig that I own or have assembled for others (many) is Sub-MOA and more accurate than I will ever be. Buy the KIDD of your choice and be forever happy without any work! Nun Beda.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by timlt View Post
I wonder if maybe then:

* Kidd classic slipfit receiver and heavy target barrel, but also,
* Let CPC thread it in.

Best of both worlds? Or overkill and unnecessary to get best precision?
Overkill. The difference between a threaded receiver & slip fit is negligible.
It’s really all about getting the right barrel. The barrel is a component in a system, sometimes you get lucky and get a hummer off the bat, but sometimes it takes several barrel swaps before I get one that really impresses me. Theres a reason why benchrest shooters have their gunsmith order six or more different barrel blanks, slug them all, and choose the one with the best choke to build off of. Thinking that you can just order a barrel from XYZ company and compare it to another barrel is just not the proper way to find the best accuracy in my experience and opinion. You might get lucky, but you might not.
Build one, tune it, bed it, test tons of ammo and do all you can to maximize accuracy. If it doesn’t impress? Swap barrels.

I’ve gotten lucky a handful of times and bought some that just shoot.
I also have rifles that went through two or three barrels- in one case as many as five barrels before I was happy & found a keeper.

My standards might be higher than yours, I
try for .250” groups or better @ 50 yards.

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Old 09-21-2020, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaser View Post
IMO threading to the Rec. is indeed overkill.. any KIDD barreled rig that I own or have assembled for others (many) is Sub-MOA and more accurate than I will ever be. Buy the KIDD of your choice and be forever happy without any work! Nun Beda.
This. Plus- if you have CPC thread a barrel in, youve now upped the cost of replacing that barrel by a substantial amount, cuz any replacement has to be threaded, depth set and extractor groove clocked.

Not cheap.

Youre over thinking this- if a threaded rig was killer, wed all have them.
We dont. And the fact that Tony Kidd isnt bothering to make them anymore should speak volumes. He gets the same accuracy out of a simpler construction- which is inherently easier/cheaper to swap barrels with- a feature youll want to keep, if youre serious about this endeavor.

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Old 09-25-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
The Kidd Supergrade will be every bit as accurate as a comparable Kidd barrel threaded into an OEM receiver, with the added advantage of easy barrel swaps. It will probably be better, as it will be in a Kidd receiver, although CPC will true the OEM as much as possible.

I wanted a Victor Titan stock with my build, so I ordered a Kidd barreled action with all the goodies : 20" Match Stainless barrel, two stage (3/3oz) trigger, Kidd bolt and all the hardware. Got the stock and rear tang from Victor Company. I could not be more pleased with the result.
Good to know. What kind of results have you gotten from your Kidd? Did you get the Titan setup with the Kidd rear tang attachment?

I'm also interested to hear somebody weigh in from the CPC side of things. Completely agree with the points about the greater flexibility of the Kidd solution, as you can keep switching barrels, but I already knew about that. I'm interested in actual comparisons of the built rifles, if anybody knows of any.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:07 PM
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Good to know. What kind of results have you gotten from your Kidd? Did you get the Titan setup with the Kidd rear tang attachment?

I'm also interested to hear somebody weigh in from the CPC side of things. Completely agree with the points about the greater flexibility of the Kidd solution, as you can keep switching barrels, but I already knew about that. I'm interested in actual comparisons of the built rifles, if anybody knows of any.
Check the leaderboards in the Ultimate 10-22 stickies. Plenty of variety there, including some high scores by Kidd AND CPC built rifles- I’m pretty sure there’s a top score at 50 yards by jcrowleyiv with a CPC built rifle-

25 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462790

50 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462794

100 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462806

Good luck in your endeavor-

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Old 09-25-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Check the leaderboards in the Ultimate 10-22 stickies. Plenty of variety there, including some high scores by Kidd AND CPC built rifles- I’m pretty sure there’s a top score at 50 yards by jcrowleyiv with a CPC built rifle-

25 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462790

50 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462794

100 yards-

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=462806

Good luck in your endeavor-

DrGunner
Awesome info, exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

ETA: Geez DrGunner, you got some awesome results @50 with a LIGHTWEIGHT Kidd barrel. That's interesting too, always wondered how the precision and accuracy potential would vary between those LW sleeved barrels vs the full steel ones (and also versus the lighter contour steel ones). So maybe the difference is--at least with the Kidd barrels--that the lighter ones can be just as accurate and precise as the heavy ones, but they are not going to be able to sustain that precision for as long as they will heat up faster?

Last edited by timlt; 09-25-2020 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:35 PM
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All my Kidd barrels currently are heavy target barrels. But from what I've seen here over the years the LW barrels seem to shoot every bit as good as the heavy barrels. I don't think your going to get a .22 barrel hot enough to affect accuracy, especially when precision shooting off the bench. I do also have a couple of really good shooting CPC builds. They are very accurate but I would still give the edge to my Kidd and Feddersen barrels. If you were to get a good blank and send it to CPC then it might be a different story. When you ship a finished barrel to Randy there is only so much he can do to make it shoot better, but if he's starting with a blank then obviously he can finish it himself and more than likely make it a better shooter.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:00 AM
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All my Kidd barrels currently are heavy target barrels. But from what I've seen here over the years the LW barrels seem to shoot every bit as good as the heavy barrels. I don't think your going to get a .22 barrel hot enough to affect accuracy, especially when precision shooting off the bench. I do also have a couple of really good shooting CPC builds. They are very accurate but I would still give the edge to my Kidd and Feddersen barrels. If you were to get a good blank and send it to CPC then it might be a different story. When you ship a finished barrel to Randy there is only so much he can do to make it shoot better, but if he's starting with a blank then obviously he can finish it himself and more than likely make it a better shooter.
Agree--from the shooting results posted I see nothing to suggest Kidd are inherently any more accurate than any of the other quality receivers or builds. There are a lot of Kidds present in top results but this could be for several reasons, for example simply that they are popular and more convenient for the reasons stated: cleaning, barrel switching. In fact, looking at similar data posted at Snipershide for bolt actions, the rather amazing thing is how well .22 rifles of a variety of action types shoot vs the higher end actions like Vudoo or RimX, provided you have the other factors dialed in starting with barrel, ammo, shooter, etc.

Would still be interesting I think to see a high quality barrel, paired with a high quality action like Kidd, and fitted by CPC. For myself, I'll likely follow the crowd though for convenience reasons and get a Kidd supergrade. The convenience of swapping barrels and cleaning is just too much to resist, given that it apparently won't cost me anything in accuracy.
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