Kidd Supergrade 1/4" likely? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 06-08-2019, 06:04 PM
dallee
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Kidd Supergrade 1/4" likely?



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I know they guarantee 1/2" but I have a number of 1/2" guns. That's 5 shot 1/2" group at 50 yards of course with preferred ammo.

Also I know there are a number of items that can make a gun variable in how well it shoots.

I also know shooter is the biggest equation.

So knowing/assuming all that my question is pretty simple as we are talking about the Kidd Supergrade rifle w/heavy 20" barrel, with preferred ammo and Dr. Gunner shooting it:

What are my chances this gun would shoot 1/4" with a fair amount of consistency?

50%, 60% Ö 90%?

I want a nice 10/22 version gun that shoots 1/4". I want to cry once on the cost.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallee View Post
I know they guarantee 1/2" but I have a number of 1/2" guns. That's 5 shot 1/2" group at 50 yards of course with preferred ammo.

Also I know there are a number of items that can make a gun variable in how well it shoots.

I also know shooter is the biggest equation.

So knowing/assuming all that my question is pretty simple as we are talking about the Kidd Supergrade rifle w/heavy 20" barrel, with preferred ammo and Dr. Gunner shooting it:

What are my chances this gun would shoot 1/4" with a fair amount of consistency?

50%, 60% Ö 90%?

I want a nice 10/22 version gun that shoots 1/4". I want to cry once on the cost.
1/2" guns at 50 are a dime a dozen. I'd say the Kidd gun will meet that goal easily. If you any more with a guarantee you probably need to shop elsewhere. Bring your wallet!
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:50 PM
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There's a HUGE difference between what we usually call a "one half inch gun" - aka one that will usually put 4 of 5 into 1/2" at 50 yards if you throw out the flyers and a gun with a 1/2" guarantee that you can shoot 10-groups in a row and ALL the shots go into 1/2" groups.

To make a 1/2" guarantee - it has to mostly shoot 1/4" groups with flyers out to 1/2".
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  #4  
Old 06-08-2019, 09:42 PM
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That
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:24 AM
dallee
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Thanks for the info gentlemen.

I know its a question with too many variables, just trying to get a feeling of if I am going to be happy or not spending $1,500 on a gun. And I know there can be no certainty in the answer, just estimates.

Thank you guys again!
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:28 AM
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Be like me, I expect to be disappointed when discovering all over again that it aint the bow, its the Indian
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:42 AM
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1/4" groups shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Consider shortening the chamber. By taking 50 thousandths off the the breech face and shoulder of my Kidd barrel groups have shrunk considerably all the way out to 100.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:53 AM
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The downside or shortening chambers is that they often start having trouble with extraction and chambering..... And in a semi-auto that means reliability with many types of ammo...

Know that as you move towards a more perfect chamber the gun will become far more picky on ammo.... Often this means you can't shoot cheap ammo anymore.... Ok - fine, maybe you don't like shooting cheap ammo because it's not accurate.... But it also means you can't hand the gun to your kids/grandkids with a $15 bulk pack of ammo and just let them fun-shoot....

I don't know about you guys - but I just don't do a whole lot of plinking with $18/50 ammo... It's just too expensive to burn up a couple hundred rounds on steel or cans...
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Be like me, I expect to be disappointed when discovering all over again that it aint the bow, its the Indian
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:12 AM
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and Dr. Gunner shooting it:
Wow! That DG sure is good!
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:20 AM
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dallee-
It’s important to note that most of my rifles went through a tuning process of upgrades, pillar bedding, and in most cases- BARREL SWAPS- until I was truly happy with their results. My top shooters went through 3 and even 6 barrels before I found a “hummer”. Only 2 out of 20 in my collection are still wearing the original or factory barrel. I’m truly honored that you named me as your “test pilot”... but I feel it’s important to say that there is a learning curve inherent to shooting great groups.

If you are lining your rifle up on the rest and using the same POA for all five shots, you’re doing it wrong, IMO.

I usually shoot the first shot of a group and OBSERVE where the bullet landed with respect to POA. If POA equals POI, then I aim my next shot for the last bullet hole.
I’m always reading wind and the behavior of my last shot to determine where I aim my next. If the bullet consistently drifts say .2” right and . 2” high, and conditions don’t change, then I aim at my last POA and pray that it drifts up and right just like the last one did. My point being that shooting great groups is not a matter of aiming at the exact same point 5 times in a row, but learning what the rifle is doing in given conditions and reacting shot after shot to put them through the same hole. Just like a car, a rifle needs to be driven well to reach its full potential.

Hope this makes sense-

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Old 06-09-2019, 11:26 AM
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Anyone reading this that wants to learn how to read wind and shoot groups in different conditions to 50 or 100 yards should commit this diagram to memory and begin incorporating itís data into their shooting habits:

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Old 06-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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To answer your question, I would have to say no.

I have a Kidd Supergrade with the screw in 20 inch target barrel in the McMillan stock.
I have shot over 11,000 rounds through it with 85% of them shot at some kind of competition target. The other 15% have been at Steel Challenges.

Has it shot a lot of 1/4 inch or smaller 5 shot groups at 50yds. Yes it has.
It holds the highest position in the 1/2 inch 10/22 game for any stock Kidd Supergrade with 4 back to back 5 shot groups at 50yd with a .226 average.
By the way, I have a long standing rule that I won't shoot more than 100 rounds total at any of these contests. (Couple of exceptions when the targets have 25 or 30 bulls. Then I'll go to as many as 200).


I think I've shot it in the Sawdust Challenge on this forum, but can't find it right now.
I've shot it at USBR targest were it averages in the micd 230's.

What that's telling us is that it's a mid .3 inch rifle on average.

I do have a couple of real 1/4 inch rifles in my Anschutz 1727F-22, and my Anschutz 1416 TH with it's new Benchmark barrel.
Both of those rifles shoot in the 240's on the USBR target, and can consistently like 85%...maybe more of the time shoot sub 1/4 inch 5 shot groups at 50yds..

The Kidd cannot.

So I feel very comfortable telling you that it's solid .3 inch rifle, but not a 1/4 inch one.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 06-09-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:36 PM
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Smooth- great post
Itís average over time/1000s of rounds that matters.

Shooters come to RFC & look at the game threads & think that the groups atop the leader boards are representative of what a rifle can do... when in truth, they are cherry picked examples of what can happen when rifle, shooter, ammo, and conditions are just right. What they donít see are the dozens or even hundreds of cards that are thrown out because they donít make the grade.
Iíve shot targets that had 3 unbelievably outstanding groups, but had to be excluded because of one flyer in the fourth group.

If Iím honest, my Lilja barreled Kidd/ BR 10-22 and my Kidd SG are likely .3-.4Ē rifles, if I include all the cards that I shot and threw out in the process of cherry picking entries for the games.

Big difference between what a rifle CAN do, and what it does MOST of the time.

I havenít had enough time with it to truly tell, but my new to me Anschutz 1712 might be closer to a 1/4Ē rifle than any of the multiple 10-22s Iíve built.

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Old 06-09-2019, 12:42 PM
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We're in 100% agreement.
I just limit my attempts a bit more than most.
But that's not to say I would do much better if I didn't, because I use great ammo and wait for excellent conditions.

I don't want the OP to Pick up a Supergrade with to high of expectations.
I love mine and find it to be shockingly accurate for a 10/22.
Having said that, I'm not sure the new stocks it comes in are as good as the McMillan.
I don't have any issue with the new barrel attaching with set screws incorporating the long shank. I trust Tony to have done it right.

Smooth

In the customized for KIDD McMillan stock. Rear tang of course, but also pillared and machine bedded.

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 06-09-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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