Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner

Time for some of us to give up on the 17HMR???

10K views 36 replies 29 participants last post by  Al the Infidel 
#1 ·
As everyone knows, many members are really struggling to find ammo that fires let alone get the groups we got 10 years ago.

I have two Marlin 917's and out of the last 3 boxes of ammo:
Winchester 5-10 out of 50 went off the first time
CCI 10 out of 50 went off the first time
Hornady 40 out of 50 went off the first time but shot 1 1/2" at 50 yards

Serious question: What's a guy to do? :confused:

No one will buy the used rifles when you tell them the truth. Your only option is to sell it to a pawn shop or Cabelas and you would probably be lucky to get $75-100 for a Marlin 917 considering you can get a new XT out the door for $250

For that little money, is it just time to put the rifles up and see what ammo is like in 5 years? Or do you cut your loses, fund other projects, and buy again should this get fixed in the future?

Just curious what everyone who has been having problems thinks
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I've had less than 15 ignition issues in 6k+ rounds through my Savage and the new RAR Target hasn't had any ignition issues......yet. Ammo accuracy the last five years in Minute of Squirrel terms has been very good from 100-200 yds for me.

Old firing pin/spring issue? Could a weak strike cause weak ignition and lead to the accuracy variables?
 
#4 ·
Curtis - sorry to hear you are having that much difficulty with your 17 MHR ammo.

One of the downsides to having "several" rimfires is not getting around to shooting "all" of them on a regular basis. Admittadly I have not shot my 17 MHR's since last summer (both are CZ 45x - bolt actions) but I do not recall having "any" issues with ammo. Looking at the inventory I have CCI, Federal, & Hornady ammo in both 17 & 20 gr. I know that some of my Hornady ammo is nearly 10 years old, but the Federal and CCI are fairly recent.

I will say that I dumped all my Winchester 22 LR ammo acquired over the past 5 years as I was having a lot of misfires with several different types. I only kept a very old brick of T22 for plinking as it at least will go bang.
 
#5 ·
I've had accuracy issues and fail to fires, but not at that level.
I'd be checking my bolt for gsr build up and a weak striking firing pin.
Gsr inside the bolt will bind the pin and prevent a clean strike.
Did you rotate the round 90 degrees and try again?
Did you pull it apart to verify lack of primer or powder?
 
#6 · (Edited)
One rifle is new to me (looks almost brand new) and I haven't had the chance to really get it working b/c of the ammo experience. I would say there would be a defect in the new rifle if my old trustworthy rifle didn't do the exact same thing. My older rifle probably has less than 500 rounds shot through it over the years because it is just a winter time tree squirrel rifle, but prior to the recent ammo experiences I could count the number of duds on one hand and accuracy with Hornady V max at 100 yards were normally .5-.75" on a good calm day. I had to discard my old stock because they were aging and splitting cases badly.

Both rifles are putting good hard hits on the case, there is no reason why it shouldn't be going off. Obviously something is wrong though - i have not pulled the bullets out. Almost all rounds will go off by cocking the bolt and firing again - not really a viable option though. I know they have altered the brass to help keep it from splitting. I can't help but think that has something to do with it.
 
#7 ·
It's interesting the you're having issues with three brands.

It's somewhat odd that Winchester isn't the worst by a larger margin.

The constant is the manufacturer is Marlin.

What conditions has the ammo been stored in? High heat, freezing. excessive moisture?

Have you noted the lots and contacted the manufacturers to see if they might be suspect?

If they are going off on a second re-cock, could you be doing something on the first one to create the condition?

Just like in trouble shooting cars you need to wipe the slate (mind) clean and start with air, fuel, spark simplistic mindset.
 
#8 ·
It's interesting the you're having issues with three brands.

It's somewhat odd that Winchester isn't the worst by a larger margin.

The constant is the manufacturer is Marlin.

What conditions has the ammo been stored in? High heat, freezing. excessive moisture?

Have you noted the lots and contacted the manufacturers to see if they might be suspect?

If they are going off on a second re-cock, could you be doing something on the first one to create the condition?

Just like in trouble shooting cars you need to wipe the slate (mind) clean and start with air, fuel, spark simplistic mindset.
2 of the boxes of ammo has been stored in the basement for 2 months and the other box was bought at the store the same day. I have not called the ammo manufacturers as I have seen enough posts on the subject lately that I expected it to happen - I figured it was a waste of time. All but the hornady box has already been discarded.

As to me creating the condition, I don't know what I could be doing. I loaded the magazines just as I have for 10 years of shooting the 17hmr and 30 years of shooting 22lr.

Thank you for all your responses thus far
 
#9 ·
With that small a sample of ammunition and no idea of the age of inventory I'd get the lot numbers off the box and contact the manufacturers and hope they are honest. Usually they are due to legal issues. Hornady bought a friend a new Ruger 77/17 due to issues with the lot number he was firing after the gun blew the side out of the stock and disintegrated the magazine. I'm guessing they thought that was cheap compared to the worse case scenario.

Most 17 HMR's shoot exceptionally good but there's always variables, ammunition would be the first (and cheapest) I would rule out. :bthumb:
 
#25 ·
I would hazard a guess that you haven't tried the original Winchester Supreme .17 HMR ammo. I have never made it through a box without multiple failures to fire. Heck, you usually have at least one misfire per magazine. That is through 2 different Savage bolt guns. My Montana buddy's Marlin experienced similar results with hat ammo.
 
#12 ·
For what it's worth. In troubleshooting this problem one thing that may be affecting the ignition is ... Rimfire cartridges need to be struck sharply. If you were to squeeze the firing pin onto the case just as deeply but slowly, the primer is much less likely to ignite. Could it be that fouling in the bolt is causing the firing pin to descend more slowly but with just as deep of a dent? ...just an idea.
 
#13 ·
The main issue here is your rifle from what I read , I’ve fired over 50,000 rounds for HMR since the round came out through many rifles mainly Coopers and Anschutz and Savages and maybe had a dozen that didnt fired ! I take that bolt apart and replace the spring to start with and if that didnt cure it replace the firing pin.

SG
 
#14 ·
I don't own a 17hmr but if I were experiencing the problems you are I would first look at the rifle. If I had a friend with the same caliber I would ask him to try the ammo in question. Lets reverse the situation. Say you had one ammo and four rifles and the ammo would not shoot in any of the rifles. Pretty sure you wouldn't blame the rifles.
 
#15 ·
new firing pin and springs?

Going to go with a rifle issue, did a week in Oregon chasing sage rats. Full two bricks of federal premium, and another misc combo of hornady and cci. One ftf, out of all of them it went on the second go round. Not bad for 1500 rounds of bulk produced ammo under 10$ a box.

Seems to me its either a firing pin spring and pin issue, or a headspace issue causing light strikes.
 
#16 ·
Not 17hmr but I just had an issue with a new 22lr rifle getting 50% misfires. The firing pin was striking to far to the center not on the edge. It was hitting hard enough but not in the right place. Bore was not centered and the rifle was replaced. Having 2 rifles do that would be very odd. Possible bent or broken firing pins but also possible something affected your ammo while in storage.
 
#17 ·
Firing Pin Issue

I have two 882s and an 880 and they are very reliable igniting ammo. Now I've had a lot of problems with 22LR lately but due to the extremely high level of misfires you are having I think it's the gun too. Firing pin channels gum up sometimes from using WD40 or 3 in1 oil on the bolt. Powder fouling can creep into the channel and sometimes, particularly with new guns there is a metal but in the firing pin channel or on the firing pin that causes it to hang up during the firing cycle slowing the strike. While it could be the spring, my bet is that it's just a lubrication issue or a rough spot. Also if you have added an over travel adjustment that can cause the sear to not cleanly break from the striker again slowing the strike. Let us know what you find. rc
 
#21 ·
I agree with the others, it seems more of a rifle issue than an ammunition issue. Just today, I took out my 2002 vintage 17V, after ignoring it for about eight years. I had some new A17 ammo, and some old Hornady 17gr. Vmax stuff (the original load).
Not shooting it didn't seem to cause any issues. All the ammo hit where it was supposed to hit, and I had no issues of any kind, no duds or misfires whatsoever.
My poor old neglected rifle had sat in the closet for some years, as I had a 455 Combo gun to mess around with, and it was lighter and handier. And it didn't shoot for beans.
The old Marlin (first year of production) has accounted for a gazillion prairie dogs, but I've since quit heading to SD, it's been neglected and sat dormant. I'm gonna redeem myself to it, I've been a poor steward of a fine-shooting rifle (after a lot of work on the trigger and bedding).

I think I'd look to the rifles, new springs and maybe new firing pins.
 
#23 ·
Just today, I took out my 2002 vintage 17V, after ignoring it for about eight years. I had some new A17 ammo, and some old Hornady 17gr. Vmax stuff (the original load).
Not shooting it didn't seem to cause any issues. All the ammo hit where it was supposed to hit, and I had no issues of any kind, no duds or misfires whatsoever.
My poor old neglected rifle had sat in the closet for some years.
The old Marlin (first year of production) has accounted for a gazillion prairie dogs, but I've since quit heading to SD, it's been neglected and sat dormant.

I think I'd look to the rifles, new springs and maybe new firing pins.
Could this be a case of "they don't make them like they used to"? Similar story with
my similar vintage 17VS. I had gotten it for a war on starlings which, for whatever
reason, had gotten as thick in summer as we usually see in winter. They were
devouring rhea and emu feed almost as fast as I could put it out, for two years!
Funny how many that little bullet could get when they were sitting in a circle
around the rim of a feed pan. The best was four for one with those frangible little
bullets. It also got a few marauding *****. Then it sat around for quite a few
years, and I decided to get it out this spring to see just how it would still shoot.
It's just as accurate as it ever was......I'm not, but it is!
 
#26 ·
Only FTF ammunition in my Browning T Bolt or my friend's identical but two years older T Bolt was Winchester. About 10% after rechambering the rounds, maybe 15 percent upon first loading and firing.

We compared the lot numbers, his were purchased at Bass Pro, mine at Cabelas. This was in 2016. Same lot.

He was ready to toss them in the dud can at our club, I said not so fast. I took them home and contacted Winchester customer service. They were responsive to my inquiry, sent a UPS pickup label.

A week or so a check was received. Never received a reason for the defective ammunition, I assume the priming was faulty.
 
#28 ·
When the hmr first came out I bought a 77/17. It grouped poorly. Sold it and bought a Cooper 57m LVT, it grouped well.
I sold it 8 years ago and bought AR’s when the political climate changed.
I recently picked up another. A CZ 455 American. I’ve found the A17 ammo to group very well in mine. I’m sure it would group better with a more powerful optic. But I’ve got it for a walk around jack rabbit/ small varmint gun so it has a Leupold 2x7 on it.
But I’ve been happier with the current ammo than before.
 
#29 ·
Thesandman has the quick and sure answer: try the same ammunition in a friend's heretofore reliable rifle. Those partial boxes of ammunition hold the key to understanding the problem; don't just throw them out!

I guess we all have our own experiences, but I don't recall a single misfire in an Anschutz 1717, a VQ semi-auto, a Cooper Jackson Squirrel, a Winchester 1885, and probably some others I can't recall, after firing 5 or 6 bricks, so 2500 - 3000 rounds, early and late production ammunition, fired when old and when new. If there were a misfire, I just don't remember it, so it couldn't be many. I will say my groups don't seem to be quite as tight, but that may have been enthusiasm for the then-new round, and the rifles that shot that well have been replaced with others since.

The only serious misfire issue I've ever had was with a very old box of .22 LR Remington Golden Bullets in a very faded box. I just took the box, since it was handy and quick, to the range with a newly restocked Mauser 340 sporter. At least half misfired and some of the rounds that fired exhibited failed cases. I was sick, thinking I had spent all that time and effort restocking and customizing an old rifle just to learn it had a bad chamber, or something. Hurried home and back to the range with some other ammunition, and every round was "golden" (no pun).

Stranger things have happened than two rifles having similar problems, and they may be happening for different reasons. Humans really tend to be one-dimensional in their thinking, especially when it comes to problem solving. While often an issue can be traced to a single problem, sometimes it's multiple problems causing one issue.

Endeavor to persevere!

TBR
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top