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  #31  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:02 PM
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win 69 & 75



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Hey guys, what's the best way to seperate a 69 or 70 action from the barrel? I know they're threaded and I have a real old action wrench and barrel vise which still works on mausers. The 69s are smaller and I hesitate to wreck one.
I received the new Brownells catalog today and they have a new action wrench that looks like it could work....but anyone have any ideas??

Thank you for any information.

Dave
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  #32  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:08 PM
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Your concern about damaging the 69 receiver is warranted, they are fairly soft and twist VERY easy. Do not attempt to put any torque on or around the loading/magazine recess (that is the weakest area) of the receiver and is easily deformed.

The way I do it on the 69 is probably bass-ackwards but I put the round receiver (front ring) in my barrel vise and then use a homemade kevlar strap wrench on the barrel. I have done dozens that way and it works fine (for me). No laughing please. For the model 70 which has a larger diameter receiver and barrel I do it the normal method with the barrel in the barrel vise and I use a #1 Mauser/Springfield action wrench (I forget the manufacturer) to rotate the action.

Regards,

Last edited by JWA; 08-02-2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Spellin'
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  #33  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:16 PM
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Now that I think about it, before I made my fancy kevlar strap wrench I did a few with the receiver in a barrel vise and then used a loop of static climbing rope (about 3 ft of 6-7mm) tied around the barrel with a Prusik knot. I then used a 2x4 through the Prusik loop to provide the leverage to unscrew the barrel.

I had forgotten about that trick, thanks for stirring the memory juices.

Regards,
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  #34  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:34 PM
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JWA...I'm not laughing it's very good advice!!! Thank you for solving a problem for me without spending a lot of money.

Much, much appreciation....glad you were up late!!

Dave
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:37 PM
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Much, much appreciation....glad you were up late!!

Dave
Glad to help, still early for me, I am PST this week

Regards,
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  #36  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:44 PM
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My thoughts and opinions, and they are worth what you paid for them:

1. I am not a fan necessarily of British doubles. But their best have a quality that no American double has ever achieved, and the Win 21 is not the best our country has made, with regards purely to quality. And I thought that was the assertion made earlier in this thread. Peons, princes, and inferiority complexes, etc. aside, the price on some best used English guns is not much different than a used 21.

2. Back to the original thread, the 75 sporter is simply a dressed up 69A, which is a fine compact rimfire action, but with a bad trigger, flawed bolt handle construction, and poor bedding. If one strips out the "embellishments", they have the exact same receiver, except the 75 has a SN. They both shoot reasonably well (especially the 69 considering the peers in its price point today), but I'd rather shoot a 69A than a 75 sporter given that the 75 has a small barrel profile that seems muzzle light and whippy. I'd go farther in that if I had to pick, I'd rather shoot a 67A over a 75 sporter. Of course, a 52 is in a much different league, but given the rest of the thread, this could be debatable.

3. How many posters in this thread have personally seen a best British gun in comparable gauge and weight to a Win 21 which has "been shot loose"? I'd also mention that the 21 was not made by standard Winchester craftsmen, for the most part. It was their high end product and John Olin would settle for no less. Do you think the final polisher on a Model 43 also worked on a 21?

4. The easiest way to enhance the perceived quality of a gun is to spend a couple hundred on a "fancy" stock blank (or some token other embellishment), which many will coo over.

All for now fellows. Again, these opinions are probably worth less than the electricity you paid to read them.

Last edited by dbl; 08-03-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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  #37  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:10 AM
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Beautiful....Most beautiful.These are the rifles to owned and be proud of.The configuration --grooved reciever--adjustable rear sight--front bead sights and wood are so perfect.
I personally don't prefer the peep sights in the 52s and 69s but prefer theh rear adjustable 'V' notch sight on the barrel.Though the Scope is mounted one should not remove the iron sights.A naked barrel with only a Scope on this type of classic rifle does not suit .

Can anybody elaborate upon the differences this grooved 75 sporter and that of the grooved 69A winchester 22? seems almost similar.
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  #38  
Old 08-03-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem41 View Post
Hey guys, what's the best way to seperate a 69 or 70 action from the barrel? I know they're threaded and I have a real old action wrench and barrel vise which still works on mausers. The 69s are smaller and I hesitate to wreck one.
I received the new Brownells catalog today and they have a new action wrench that looks like it could work....but anyone have any ideas??

Thank you for any information.

Dave
JWA has got you covered Dave! He's the man in this area, only guy in RFC who knows what a Prusik knot is.
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  #39  
Old 08-03-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johny4455 View Post
Can anybody elaborate upon the differences this grooved 75 sporter and that of the grooved 69A winchester 22? seems almost similar.
DBL just about covered it in number 2 above. The 75 barrel has six lands and grooves to the 69A's four. Winchester spent extra time on the polish of the 75 prior to bluing, and it shows. The 75 got the best wood laying around in the factory, even better than the typically plain-grained 52's.
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  #40  
Old 08-03-2012, 12:40 PM
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Many thanks 22AGS!!!!
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  #41  
Old 08-03-2012, 01:07 PM
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The 75 barrel has six lands and grooves to the 69A's four. Winchester spent extra time on the polish of the 75 prior to bluing, and it shows. The 75 got the best wood laying around in the factory, even better than the typically plain-grained 52's.[/QUOTE]

Thanks 22AGS, thats clears it.
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  #42  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:02 PM
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69A's and 75 Sporters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbl View Post
My thoughts and opinions, and they are worth what you paid for them:

1. I am not a fan necessarily of British doubles. But their best have a quality that no American double has ever achieved, and the Win 21 is not the best our country has made, with regards purely to quality. And I thought that was the assertion made earlier in this thread. Peons, princes, and inferiority complexes, etc. aside, the price on some best used English guns is not much different than a used 21.

2. Back to the original thread, the 75 sporter is simply a dressed up 69A, which is a fine compact rimfire action, but with a bad trigger, flawed bolt handle construction, and poor bedding. If one strips out the "embellishments", they have the exact same receiver, except the 75 has a SN. They both shoot reasonably well (especially the 69 considering the peers in its price point today), but I'd rather shoot a 69A than a 75 sporter given that the 75 has a small barrel profile that seems muzzle light and whippy. I'd go farther in that if I had to pick, I'd rather shoot a 67A over a 75 sporter. Of course, a 52 is in a much different league, but given the rest of the thread, this could be debatable.

3. How many posters in this thread have personally seen a best British gun in comparable gauge and weight to a Win 21 which has "been shot loose"? I'd also mention that the 21 was not made by standard Winchester craftsmen, for the most part. It was their high end product and John Olin would settle for no less. Do you think the final polisher on a Model 43 also worked on a 21?

4. The easiest way to enhance the perceived quality of a gun is to spend a couple hundred on a "fancy" stock blank (or some token other embellishment), which many will coo over.

All for now fellows. Again, these opinions are probably worth less than the electricity you paid to read them.
Regarding 69A's and 75 Sporters, I agree with you that some 69A's will perform as well or better than some 75 Sporters. I prefer to think of them as unadorned 75 Sporters rather than the opposite. I think it is testament to the quality of the 69A rather than the 75 Sporter being a "dressed up" 69A. It goes back to the idea presented in my previous post...Winchester was making very high quality items back then. Even the entry level rifles like the 69A are superb rifles...not fancy but in terms of functionality, they were of superb quality. The actions on a 69A and 75 Sporter are basically the same. After reading your post last night I dug into my safe and pulled out my 75 Sporter and two 69A's. I looked them over side by side and outwardly the actions are nearly identical...until you open the bolt, work the action and feel the trigger. In doing this I felt a considerable difference between the 69A's and the 75 Sporter. Obviously they began as mechanically identical actions, but I think that Winchester finished these rifles differently both inside and out. As was mentioned the polish and bluing is better on the 75, but also the smoothness of the action. The bolt is much smoother and the feeding of ammo from the magazine to the chamber on the 75 is flawless...this is not always the case with the 69A. (I used the same magazine in all three rifles for this comparison). There is a lot to be said for attention to detail, hand fitting, polishing, bluing and generally better overall quality control. Add to this a better grade of wood, checkering a six land and groove barrel that is also hand finished and what you have is a rifle that is more than merely "dressed up". It is a better functioning product as well. At least that's how I see it.

Kix
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  #43  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:37 PM
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model 75

Your right Kix! The 75's are a better made gun than the 69's for the reasons that you already gave. Winchester made the 75 sporter and target to fill the gap between the 52 and the cheaper bolt action 22's! The model 75 was often referred to as the poor mans 52! I have several of both models and wouldn't trade my 75's for the 69s even though I am a fan of both guns!
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  #44  
Old 08-04-2012, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kixonrt66 View Post
Regarding 69A's and 75 Sporters, I agree with you that some 69A's will perform as well or better than some 75 Sporters. I prefer to think of them as unadorned 75 Sporters rather than the opposite. I think it is testament to the quality of the 69A rather than the 75 Sporter being a "dressed up" 69A. It goes back to the idea presented in my previous post...Winchester was making very high quality items back then. Even the entry level rifles like the 69A are superb rifles...not fancy but in terms of functionality, they were of superb quality. The actions on a 69A and 75 Sporter are basically the same.

Kix
If a 69A is "superb", how can one top that? How could a 75 surpass that level? Folks, is it not fair to ask that we tamper the hyperbole a little bit..............lest adjectives and emoticons and !!!!! have no real meaning. God help us if kixonrt66 ever owns a Steyr Zephyr--I'm unsure the servers could handle it.

Last edited by dbl; 08-04-2012 at 02:22 AM.
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  #45  
Old 08-04-2012, 04:04 AM
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Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbl View Post
If a 69A is "superb", how can one top that? How could a 75 surpass that level? Folks, is it not fair to ask that we tamper the hyperbole a little bit..............lest adjectives and emoticons and !!!!! have no real meaning. God help us if kixonrt66 ever owns a Steyr Zephyr--I'm unsure the servers could handle it.
I don't even know what a Steyr Zephyr is. I have had my share of great old English Doubles, Belgian and Italian ones too. I have had a lot of rimfire rifles in my day also, Winchester 52's, 75's, 69A's and Remington 40X's, 513's and plenty of other 5-teen series rifles. Lever guns, semi auto's, pumps, I've had them all. I have been around the gun collecting block a time or two. Enough to know when the fit and finish on one rifle is better than another even though outwardly and mechanically they look the same.

Enjoy your 69A's they are great little rifles. We are all entitled to our opinion and mine is that the 75 Sporter is a better article.

Kix
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