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  #1  
Old 08-29-2021, 12:13 PM
aks74u

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M4-22 Elite failure to lock open.



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Hello, just picked up a M4-22 Elite the other day and am very pleased with it other than the fact that I cannot get the mags to reliably lock open now. I have 4 mags and they each locked open for the first 2 times they were each used but now I cannot get them to lock open unless I stretch the mag spring a little and even then it only works for one more fully loaded mag. I have seen one other post about this issue but not much else. Seems this issue could be solved with a higher power spring from Tippmann.
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2021, 08:41 AM
Av1at0r

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Hopefully I'm not violating any forum rules by tagging on to this post, but I think there's sufficient crossover to be relevant.

I have a Tippmann M4-22 Elite and Rifle, very pleased with both, especially because they cycle any ammo I've ever tried. Reported my first complaint on this forum earlier this year, that extracting a live round with the charging handle almost never worked. Tippmann warranty service dealt with that by sending me two new bolts, supposedly redesigned. Neither one solved the problem, so I sent in the Elite and they returned it after finding the barrel out of spec, updated the bolt to the newest design, and updated the buffer assembly. Unfortunately, the problem still hasn't been fixed.

Recently installed a Magpul BAD device on each firearm. Love them, except that the one on the rifle won't allow the last round function to lock the bolt open when firing. If I insert an empty mag and open the bolt with the charging handle, it locks the bolt back and releases as designed with the BAD.

I understand that Tippmann isn't responsible for how aftermarket additions function on their firearms, and that the BAD wasn't designed for .22 LR versions of AR-15 designs, but the users of this forum really helped me with these earlier issues, and I learned that I need not worry that Tippman warranty service won't continue to support me.

I'm also having a mag problem, in that the internal mag binds up in the outer shell when removing or installing it. If any one can suggest a way to fix that, thanks in advance.

W.H. McIntosh
LtCol USAF (Ret)
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2021, 08:46 PM
mostly22lately

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av1at0r View Post
extracting a live round with the charging handle almost never worked ... Unfortunately, the problem still hasn't been fixed.

....

I'm also having a mag problem, in that the internal mag binds up in the outer shell when removing or installing it. If any one can suggest a way to fix that, thanks in advance.
Hello again. I actually didn't really understand what the OP was referring to. Is it a failure of last-round-bolt-hold-open?

For the first issue you mentioned, it really does sound like your rifle isn't fully in battery when that unfired round is intended to be extracted.

Using Steelworx metal dummy rounds, I was unable to recreate your situation.
https://www.amazon.com/STEELWORX-Ste.../dp/B07X1ZS5JG I realize these aren't "real" cartridges but at least trying these should highlight any anomaly, safely.

Powder residue buildup at about the 9-10 o'clock position of the breech face is not uncommon for me even after 150 or so rounds. Not saying this is the problem or even A problem, it's just something to look for since I can't imagine another cause that's obvious. I can imagine PLENTY of non-obvious ones!

Regarding the plastic-on-plastic drag on the magazine parts, I at least partially mitigated this expected scenario by using a very light silicone oil wipe of the inner section. Try also putting the magazine in the fridge for 20 minutes and see if it still has the issue. I suspect that wear of the plastic mating surfaces will diminish this tolerance issue over time.
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2021, 06:46 AM
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Yes, the OP's complaint is failure of the last-round-bolt-hold-open function.

When charging handle fails to extract a live round in a competition at the end of a stage, the SO's allow me to fire the round into the berm. I have some of the Steelworx metal rounds, and I'll try them today. My Elite hasn't yet been cleaned since a range session yesterday, and if the powder build up you mention is the culprit, maybe I can duplicate the problem and identify the cause.

To clarify, you are suggesting that the powder build up might be preventing the extractor from grabbing the lip of the unfired round?

Which brings to an issue I need to address, which is how best to clean the M4s in terms of products and steps. A gunsmith mentioned that I might be running the firearm too dry. If you have any suggestions, I'd be very interested.

As for the magazine tolerance issue, I finally had to remove some material from the upper and lower catches, then recently began using a Dremel to remove material from the edges of the insert. This has helped a lot, and I'd also like to try some silicone.

Thanks one more time for the benefit of your expertise and willingness to share.

One final thought for now, which is a wish for a speedloader for these magazines.

Tosh
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Old 09-02-2021, 07:30 AM
mostly22lately

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"To clarify, you are suggesting that the powder build up might be preventing the extractor from grabbing the lip of the unfired round?"

More specifically, if there's something preventing the bolt face from squarely coming to rest in battery .... and this is the situation you check with your snap cap. Take the upper off and manually move the bolt against a chambered snap cap, watching the action of the extractor.

"Which brings to an issue I need to address, which is how best to clean the M4s in terms of products and steps. A gunsmith mentioned that I might be running the firearm too dry. If you have any suggestions, I'd be very interested."

Since this is a simple piston machine, I go by the idea of removing impediments to the piston operation, removing overthinking and gun lore. ;-) Remove upper from rifle, then remove bolt. Go outdoors because this stuff is smelly. Point barrel up. Spray 'blaster' type cleaner (large spray can sold at Walmart for around $8) around in breech area, focusing on getting rid of debris buildup. Use rag tied with string, dragging through where the bolt travels to remove carbon and the remains of the factory paint overspray that wore off. While you have the can, spritz the face area of the bolt with the blaster and wipe off with the rag. A toothbrush is handy to make really certain the bolt face has no combusted debris around the firing pin.

Lubrication is a different story. On the bolt you will see the 'drag' marks where the bosses in the upper 'guide' it. Oil those with something light, like Hoppes or even Breakthrough CLP. Clean and let dry the extractor and firing pin channel using Eezox.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:49 AM
Av1at0r

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Great, never heard of these steps, will try them before my next shoot!
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:51 AM
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"Spray 'blaster' type cleaner (large spray can sold at Walmart for around $8) around in breech area, focusing on getting rid of debris buildup."

To clarify, does this refer to Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber?
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  #8  
Old 09-02-2021, 06:13 PM
mostly22lately

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av1at0r View Post
To clarify, does this refer to Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber?
There are several brands they carry, depending on stock, this is one of them and I don't find much difference between them. These are aggressive cleaning type chemicals and they quickly strip oils from protected surfaces. Obviously use volatiles like this wisely and with plenty of ventilation. Don't let these drip on stuff that could get damaged. Don't get these on optics.

If 22lr combustion debris gets crusty or stuck in a crevasse, using these can help:

https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Firearm-Cleaning-Picks-Maintenance/dp/B08X4SDTHG
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2021, 02:23 PM
bmwmc
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I can't prove they're the same thing, but I use house brand brake parts cleaner at about half the cost of gun scrubber. I find that nothing removes rimfire residue from an action without some mechanical action.
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2021, 06:24 PM
mostly22lately

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I can't prove they're the same thing, but I use house brand brake parts cleaner at about half the cost of gun scrubber. I find that nothing removes rimfire residue from an action without some mechanical action.
Here is your answer:

https://cleangunguide.com/gun-scrubber-vs-brake-cleaner/
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  #11  
Old 09-11-2021, 07:23 AM
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Want to caution folks on the Brake cleaner, some will remove paint and melt plastics... use with care. Your better off removing those metal parts that need cleaning and keep away from your gun. I speak from experience. :
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2021, 06:02 PM
BBQBandit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av1at0r View Post
Yes, the OP's complaint is failure of the last-round-bolt-hold-open function.

One final thought for now, which is a wish for a speedloader for these magazines.

Tosh
You might have one hiding somewhere ....

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