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  #46  
Old 05-21-2020, 09:16 PM
samven
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I was going to suggest slugging the barrel but if you missed a paper plate at 15 yds its not the barrel, the action has got to be loose in the stock. If you look at the receiver channel you should be able to see some compressed wood from over-tightening the action screw. If not the screw may be bottoming out in the receiver before getting it tight to the stock or like others have said there might be a peak right where the screw is so the front and back are just teetering back and forth with every shot.
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  #47  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:56 AM
Scottro
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Following this thread with interest...

I also have a Marlin 25MN from approx the same era that patterns instead of groups.

My father bought it new. After he had it a few weeks, he gave it to me. "This thing is horrible. It won't group worth a ##$$%%."

From a rest, it shoots patterns of 3-4" at 25 yds. Ammo choice only makes a slight difference. I get the same results with open sights or scopes. The crown looked ok, but I did a basic brass screw and flitz clean up. It made no difference.

I haven't done much further with it. Every once in awhile I see it in the back of the safe and think about trying it again...

I've done a lot of spring-piston airgun tuning and tinkering and have seen the same results when the breech area of a break barrel airgun is "choked" tighter than the muzzle end. On lower-end air rifles, it seems like the breech end can get squeezed where it's pressed into the breech block. When I slug such a barrel with a pellet, there's a lot more resistance at the breech end, and a lot less at the muzzle. Rifles with such barrels look fine but blow shots all over the paper. Most higher quality springers will be choked at the muzzle end of the barrel. When slugging the barrel with a pellet you can feel things tighten up starting about 2" from the muzzle.

I should probably slug the Marlin's barrel and see if this is happening. If it is, there's nothing that can be done to fix the situation except re-barrel or send back to Marlin.

BTW-- This is the first and only inaccurate Marlin rimfire I've ever experienced. The Model 25-based .22LRs and 17's I've got shoot incredibly well. 'Way beyond their price points.
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  #48  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:11 AM
prairie maggot
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What a frustrating thread to read. First question that I have relates to the vice you are using. Could the vice or the way you are using it contribute to the erratic groups? Next, just humor the rest of us and do a quick and easy bedding job on the action and about the first inch of the barrel with a tube of silicone. Tape off your stock and stick a little putty in the critical areas you don't want any silicone. Wrap your barrel with a few rounds of electricians tape to give your barrel some clearance. Apply the silicone to the stock in the action and barrel (first inch) area, use some surgical tubing and wrap it up to hold the action in the stock tightly and let it dry. This can do miracles if you have a bad stock bed that your action and barrel rests in. If it works, do a real bedding job as the silicone is easy to remove. I agree with comments made that if you can not hit a paper plate at 15 yards, it is not your barrel per se. It may be a lose barrel/action connection, or a teetering action in the stock (bedding), or moving sights. I would include bad crown here too, but you have already had the crown cut. Still, you may want to get a second opinion on the crown as well.

To the OP you will get a lot of suggestions on here that may be redundant, that may be counter to something that you have already said, or something that you don't believe is the problem. The correct response to all of these types of comments is a simple "thank you." Your responses have shown your frustration and at times seem to be argumentative or dismissive. These comments are a gift to you from the members of this forum. Receive them all as a gift and people will be more inclined to give you some assistance in the future. Just my $0.02. Burt

PS. I should have mentioned to use a release agent on all of your metal gun parts. I like using Hornady One Shot spray, but you can use any wax paste like shoe polish. That will make it easy to separate your rifle from the silicone.

Last edited by prairie maggot; 05-22-2020 at 01:09 PM.
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  #49  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:20 PM
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Well said.
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  #50  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:01 PM
springer1
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What a frustrating thread to read.
Im starting to wonder if OP is trolling, he has several threads in various forums regarding this. Not accusing .... just wondering at this point.
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  #51  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:38 PM
rubberhead
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shotgun pattern

try another scope thats too large a dispersion
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  #52  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:29 PM
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Ive read the whole thread. I am going to second a pressure pad 2 from the end of the stock. One bad fitting action screw can cause a lot of problems. Give yourself a second point of pressure and I bet it tightens up.
Iron
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  #53  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:38 PM
Eagle0199
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Agree with the "check to see if the barrel is loose in the receiver". I've had this to be the case on one of my personal 22's, and also saw an M16 with the same problem on a range I was operating while in the military.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:30 AM
rhanks
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Have you checked the barrel to see if the rate of twist is correct? This is most likely not the problem, but it is possible.
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:17 PM
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No I am not a troll....

Update. A friend of mine finally delivered a mix a rounds for me to try. He had many that I have already tried and a few that I had not.

I placed a couple pieces of cardstock under the barrel near the end and tightened the screw.

Tried some Winchester lead free 28gr and my groups at 40yds / 8 rounds (all he had left) were slightly larger than 3/4 inch. GETTING SOMEWHERE NOW!...

Tried some Browning 40gr at 1910fps and groups were 1.5 inches.

Nowhere near the 8in groups but further proved it is likely ammo related.

Here is my observation on my problems, some of which is just a guess.

1. I think this gun was practically new. Bolt has always been clunky and stiff. (now it is smooth as silk).. So It needed breaking in.

2. Ammo was my biggest problem. So far I think my gun likes the lightest and fastest projectiles.

After going through all the different kinds of ammo, my gun wasn't broken in yet..so horrible groups. By the time I had broken in my gun, the ammo I was using was junk bulk stuff.. so I was spinning my wheels there. Nothing worked with that crap..

To make a long strory short.. My gun was new and not broken in, and I was yet to find the right ammo.

This non lead stuff isn't available in my area but I think now that I can use CCI 30gr rounds which was the first that I tried in a "new" barrel.

Will try these again with the cardstock and with my now broken in barrel (over 500 rounds later)...

What an adventure.

I'm not "there" yet.. but I think I'm heading in the right direction now...

Thanks all!
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:30 PM
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Sam, I'm happy you're making progress. Personally I believe your use of the cardstock "pad" proves what the real issue is, and that's not so much the ammo imho. I will say bulk ammo is not accurate, but it should group around 2" at 50yds, roughly. Testing again with your original ammo will prove, or disprove this. If the original ammo shoots better with your improvised pad, then the action was not stable. If that turns out to be the case, check and make sure you didn't over compress the stock/wood under the screw, and as I mentioned earlier, try to see if there's another "pressure point" that the rear of the action should be in contact with, that may also not be making proper contact.
FWIW, SV Ammo and sub-sonic tend to be far more accurate in 22lr rifles. Known (more costly) brands (SK to name 1) are almost always more accurate than inexpensive types (think newer CCI SV to name 1).

Last edited by LoneWolfSS454; 05-23-2020 at 12:42 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:43 PM
iron85

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Originally Posted by LoneWolfSS454 View Post
Sam, I'm happy you're making progress. Personally I believe your use of the cardstock "pad" proves what the real issue is, and that's not the ammo imho. Testing again with your original ammo will prove, or disprove this. If the original ammo shoots better with your improvised pad, then the action was not stable. If that turns out to be the case, check and make sure you didn't over compress the stock/wood under the screw, and as I mentioned earlier, try to see if there's another "pressure point" that the rear of the action should be in contact with, that may also not be making proper contact.
FWIW, SV Ammo and sub-sonic tend to be far more accurate in 22lr rifles. Known (more costly) brands (SK to name 1) are almost always more accurate than inexpensive types (think newer CCI SV to name 1).
Agreed. After you test more ammo remove the card stock pad and I bet those 8 groups come back.

Iron
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  #58  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:56 PM
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Sam, to elaborate more on what I was saying above... If you can find that 2nd pressure point, which should be several inches or more behind the 1 action screw, try adding some of that card stock there, and add the same amount under the action at the screw location. Remove your improvised front pad, and see how she groups. This is the direction I'd be going in.
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  #59  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:02 PM
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Wow. Is that big a difference to be expected from ammo? From an eight inch group to less than an inch at forty yards? All three of my rifles will shoot less than an eight inch group at fifty yards offhand (barring a few fliers just from my shakiness) and I use only the cheapest bulk ammo I can find, mostly Golden Bullet and Thunderbolt.

Last edited by Ynned; 05-23-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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  #60  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:21 PM
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Definitely agree it's not the ammo or the fact that it wasn't broken in. It was the card stock that you put in. Some guns may improve a little bit with some break-in but the difference isn't all that significant. Same with the ammo, I'd bet if you went back to what you were using before and getting 8" groups they will be exponentially better than before. I'm glad you were able to get it to shoot though.
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