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  #1  
Old 08-15-2021, 10:00 AM
beavis
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Tippman M-22 vs 10/22



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I picked up a Tippman M-22 a couple weeks ago for my son to get more familar with the AR-15 platform as he has been shooting 10/22s for the past 10 years and may be going to basic training at some point in the next couple years.

I have been shooting 10/22s for almost 40 years and so I made a little side-by-side comparison between the M-22 and the 10/22 that I posted in the 10/22 section, so I thought I would do a cut and paste and post that here as well.

Please feel free to read and review my review and add any input you may have as well. We have only had the Tippman a couple weeks but it is finding a special place place in our collection by the day.


I have been a 10/22 fan since the early 80s and have several of them ranging from my very first 10/22 that is still completely stock to every tricked out variant one can think of.

And of course I have closets full or various parts and pieces and components.

My son is now about to turn 17 and be a junior in high school and he has been shooting 10/22s since he started kindergarten and now competes in Steel Challenge and USPSA etc.

We did build an AR-15 in 3.36/223 from stripped reciever a few years ago but don't really shoot it all that much.

He will likely being going to basic training at some point in the next couple years and I wanted him to become more famiiar with the AR-15 platform and so we got an Tippman Arms m-22 which seems to be the closest 22 to an actual AR-15 that is not a CMMG dedicated upper attached to an AR lower.

Anyway, he has basically fell in love with it and is now using it as his Steel Challenge competition gun.

I have also started shooting it as well and have also used it in a Steel Challenge match when my competition 10/22 decided to crap out in the middle of the match.

So I have decided to make a little side-by-side comparison on my thoughts of the 10/22 platform verses the AR-15 platform from the standpoint of a dedicated 22LR.

Just are just my non-expert thoughts and opinions and I'll break it down into a variety of factors such as reliability, accuracy, ease of maintenence/cleaning etc.

RELIABILITY - The Tippman has an interesting magazine and we have noticed if while loading the magazine that if a bullets drops down point down in the magazine, it will jam up with a FTF bad. But if you make sure each bullet is lined up on the magazine feed ramp as you load it, it has ran flawlessly through roughly 1000 rds in the last couple weeks. I can't quite say the same for my 10/22s although the factory stock very rarely gives me any problems with reliability with 10 rd mags.

ACCURACY - The guns being compared is a completely stock Tippman vs a 10/22 with a TacSol aluminum barrel with fiber optic open sights, A 10/22T stock and a trigger group that had a CPC trigger job and a CPC-tuned bolt. This is where I was surprised ,but the Tippman actually gave me smaller and more uniform groups at 50yds.

I have gotten a bit better groups with my heavy barrel 10/22T with 12x scope with AO, but the real test would be to put a good scope on the Tippman.

ERGONOMICS AND CONTROLS - I'm just going to give this one to the AR-15 platform as a whole. It's simply a more modern design and the ergonomics and controls are just more user friendly. Sorry Bill. Eugene Stoner, hit one out of the ballpark there.

TRIGGER - The $38 trigger job by CPC is better than the factory trigger of the Tippman. However, it's not bad. You can drop in a whole host of drop-in AR-15 trigger groups including Geissles and RRA Match triggers etc for however many hundreds of $ they are. But a factory Tippman is far cry better than a current factory 10/22. A Ruger BX and a factory Tippman may be a better comparisson.

SIGHTS - Sights are a bit subjective and dependent on the usage. The Tippman uses a propriety flip-up sight very similar to Magpul flip ups with the added bonus they are adjustable without tools. As they are an aperature sight at the back of the receiver with more sight radius, FOR ME they give a little more precise shot placement for accuracy vs open notch and post sights. However for speed shooting such as a Steel Challenge match, my 57 year old eyes with progressive lenses prefer the fiber optic open sights of a 10/22.

MAGAZINES - 10/22 10 round magazines are a pretty genius design and pretty bombproof. And 10/22 high cap magazine, not so much The Tippman mags are a proprietary design and they are pretty dang good themselves with a quirk that one must be aware of. The mags themselves are an open design with a spring assist to help take the tension off while loading similar to the M&P 15-22, bu the Tippman has a sleeve that covers the magazine to keep dirt and grunge out of the mag and makes it very similar in size and appearance to a standard AR15 mag (they are not interchangable) I will call the 10/22 factory 10 round vs the Tippman 25 a close draw in reliability, with the Tippman a clear winner in the 25 round comparison.

EASE OF DISSASSEMBLY/CLEANING/REASSEMBLY - OK, I'm not even going to dignify that will a direct answer. If you have ever pulled and replaced the bolt of an AR-15, you already know the answer.

FIREPOWER - I'm going to give this to the Tippman. It comes standard with a couple 25 rd magazines that actually work. Yes, if you let the front bullet tip drop down into the mag, it will jam - BAD. But if you load them in straight, you can do mag dump after mag dump without issue. I have rarely gotten through a complete BX magazine or other after market 25 rounded of a 10/22 without some kind of hiccup. Ruger really dropped the ball on the BX magazines as they aren't even dimensionally the same as the factory 10rounders.

Now I am going to call the rest the "X-FACTOR" as this is all purely subjective and based more on "feel" than actual data points.

-My one criticism of the Tippman is that while it uses an actual, functional buffer spring and buffer like a real AR rather than a spring-loaded bolt like the M&P 15-22 and other AR-15 clones and conversion kits, the spring makes an annoying "thwoong" noise in your ear that is up against the buffer tube. This actually made some of the long shots in Steel Challenge a little difficult to hear the "ping" of htting the steel plate 35yds out with hearing protection.

- if one wants a "Tacticool" factor, then the Tippman would be for you.

- If one wants a training gun that is similar in feel, weight, dimensions and functions that shoots cheaper rimfire ammo, then the Tippman is your answer.

- I on the other hand, actually like the smooth lines and compact features of a stock 10/22. Yes, the AR platform is more ergonomic and user friendly. But I like that the 10/22 is sleek and smooth and does not have all sorts of protruberences sticking out like grips and large magazines and bulky sights etc. It slides in and out of gun cases well and fits under the back sit of a pick up well.

- I also appreciate that it does NOT look tactical or threatening to the masses. I do some squirrel and varmint hunting in farm country and it is a lot better marketing and PR with farmers and landowners when I have a gun their grandpa used to have with wood and blue steel and sleek lines rather than looking like I just came deploying out of an armored personell carrier armed for battle. But that's just me.

So all in all, the Tippman is a great gun. My son is going to shoot it in an upcoming Appleseed Project to become even more familiar and competent with it. I plan on shooting it quite a bit going forward.

I think the AR-15 platform is here to stay for a long long time and will become more and more popular as a 22LR platform over time.

Will it completely replace MY 10/22s??? NEVER!!!!
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2021, 12:08 PM
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beavis View Post
ERGONOMICS AND CONTROLS - I'm just going to give this one to the AR-15 platform as a whole. It's simply a more modern design and the ergonomics and controls are just more user friendly. Sorry Bill. Eugene Stoner, hit one out of the ballpark there.
I'm not a fan of Garand ergonomics either. Additionally, the bolt lock back on a 10/22is wonderful for cutting manufacturing expenses, but terrible to use on a range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beavis View Post
-My one criticism of the Tippman is that while it uses an actual, functional buffer spring and buffer like a real AR rather than a spring-loaded bolt like the M&P 15-22 and other AR-15 clones and conversion kits, the spring makes an annoying "thwoong" noise in your ear that is up against the buffer tube.
I built regular ARs before I started building ARs in 22lr. That sproing noise may be somewhat concealed by 5.56 report, but I still hear it.

The virtue of the Tippman's use of the buffer tube as a buffer tube is the potential for using the weight of the buffer as part of tuning for the correct bolt speed. For other systems, all those solutions have to be housed within the BCG.
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Old 08-15-2021, 12:52 PM
beavis
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Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
I'm not a fan of Garand ergonomics either. Additionally, the bolt lock back on a 10/22is wonderful for cutting manufacturing expenses, but terrible to use on a range.



I built regular ARs before I started building ARs in 22lr. That sproing noise may be somewhat concealed by 5.56 report, but I still hear it.

The virtue of the Tippman's use of the buffer tube as a buffer tube is the potential for using the weight of the buffer as part of tuning for the correct bolt speed. For other systems, all those solutions have to be housed within the BCG.
what kind of ARs in 22 do you have now?
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  #4  
Old 08-15-2021, 03:53 PM
zukiphile
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CMMGs on Anderson lowers and uppers. I did modify a CMMG Bolt frame to use a regular AR buffer to drive the bolt, but it only worked really well with Remington Golden Bullets. I needed to find a spring with a different rate, but I never did. I had a friend try it with his 17HMR, but that turned out to be too snappy for that system.

For me, these have replaced my 10/22s. I kept one 10/22 that was so accurate that I can't bear to sell it, but sold or donated all the others.

While I don't have a Tippman, I've handled a couple at the range and noticed that the upper to lower fit was very tight. They may have just been so new that they'd yet to break in.

Last edited by zukiphile; 08-15-2021 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:20 PM
mostly22lately
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so much similarity here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by beavis View Post
So all in all, the Tippman is a great gun. My son is going to shoot it in an upcoming Appleseed Project to become even more familiar and competent with it. I plan on shooting it quite a bit going forward.
This is a superbly useful, relevant, and well thought out write-up.

Earlier this year I was shopping for two 22 rifles, one for me and also one for my 26 year old son. We'd use them together at Appleseed (we went in June) and then afterwards for other purposes, similar to yours.

#1 consideration was reliability.

I have a 1985 Marlin 60 (long tube, JM stamp) so the new rifle had to be in that same ballpark for capacity and accuracy.

But I needed magazine feed, a must-have. And I did NOT want to lose last-round bolt-hold-open. I'm a huge Ruger fan and almost went for the 10-22. Almost.

The S&W 15-22 was not on the list due to the Appleseed safety restrictions for that rifle at the time, plus, I am P.O.ed at S&W anyway.

Short story: the M4-22 'Elite' rifle checked all the boxes and then some. One of the two here now (mine) wears a Hawke Vantage 3x9 scope similar to the one offered by Tippmann. The other has a Swift 4x fixed, zeroed at 25 yards. Both can get to 1 MOA when using CCI SV and maybe a bit better with nicer $tuff.

I added a very few accessories, the main one being the two stage target trigger discussed in another thread here. The 3.8 lb. factory trigger on my son's M4-22 is SO good I don't want to touch it! Total of 8 mags here now, 4 of which are the short style 10 rounders you "need at the 'seed."

Hope your (and your son's) experience continues to be as good as ours.

PS: the Tippmann 'sproing' sound is exactly like my Aero AR! Uncanny. Felt right at home.
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:38 PM
zukiphile
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Both can get to 1 MOA when using CCI SV and maybe a bit better with nicer $tuff.
That's intriguing. I'd like to know who makes their barrels.

For me to print a a five shot group at an inch center to center at 100 yards from the CMMG, everything needs to be perfect, the right ammunition with virtually no wind.
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  #7  
Old 08-15-2021, 10:17 PM
mostly22lately
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Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
That's intriguing. I'd like to know who makes their barrels.
I wonder the same thing.

There are plenty of 22 rifles that will out shoot the M4-22 at reasonable cost and I was really tempted. Such as the Bergara BXR, not much more than I paid for the Tippmann. I like the CMMG as an AR trainer without the $$ of the .223REM but the purpose-built Tippmann did better when I tried them back to back. Well, it is nice to have choices!

I recently tried for the Appleseed KD and I did ... OK ... but my skills at 100 and 150 yards did not make the cut. (Until next year!) The timed course-of-fire plus the position change and mag change did me in. Oddly I did somewhat well at 200, with a score of 16 out of 20. So the Tippmann held up its part of the bargain.
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