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Old 05-03-2021, 07:57 AM
tlbj6142
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Validating scope/barrel alignment



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I had my LGS mount a Mueller 8-32x44 on my CZ 457 using these 30 mm rings and "laser bore sight". The following day at 50 yards I had it zeroed within ~10 shots. However, the windage adjustment is ~5 clicks from its far left "maximum"! While I didn't expect the windage to fall exactly in the middle of the adjustment range of 40 MOA (320 clicks), I would have expected it to fall in the middle quarter or third of the adjustment range.

Any ideas what could be wrong with the setup that would cause my windage zero to be so far left? Could the scope be somehow misaligned with the barrel? Bad scope? bad rings? Is there some external means by which I could "confirm" the scope and barrel are correctly aligned?
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:03 AM
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It could be any one of the things you listed. One way to find out if it's a mounting problem would be to mount a different scope in on the same rifle with the same rings and see if you have the same issue. If you don't then you have a scope problem. If that's the case Mueller will fix it for you or send you a new scope for free providing you have the receipt from when you bought it. Or at least they used to require proof of purchase, not sure if they still do.

I just clicked on your link for the rings and I would probably look there first. They're pretty cheap rings so it is pretty likely that they're the weak link.

Last edited by Nick7274; 05-03-2021 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:27 AM
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Try swapping the rings from front to back.
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:30 PM
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Or try mounting the rings with the clamp on the other side of the rifle. If still a problem a little careful use with a jewelers file can remove a bit of material on the ring to center up the scope.

But I agree, start with the rings, most probable component causing the issue.
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaguru View Post
But I agree, start with the rings, most probable component causing the issue.
I take a look tonight. Being nearly 20 MOA left of center, I am assuming the miss-alignment will be obvious?
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:45 PM
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shim it?

I've used electricians tape, foil or even strips of an aluminum can as shims on occasion. Lapping the rings might prove useful as well.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:27 PM
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If you're going to replace the rings, consider the DIP scope mount to convert your 11 mm dovetail to 13 mm. I've done this on a CZ 455 and it's rock solid. Then you can use any 13 mm rings, which are more likely to be up to the job of handling that scope.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:51 PM
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These rings, like many others have flipable locking plates. One ring is on one setting the other ring is on another. Just flip one .
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:52 PM
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$500 rifle.. check!
$300 scope.. check!
Quality mount.. nah, who needs that!
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:10 PM
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Something I've done routinely for several years (I swap scopes all the time as well as mount new ones): I always use a bore sighter when mounting a scope. If it's a new scope, I assume that the windage adjustment/reticle is centered. When I put the scope in the rings, I look to see where the reticle aligns with the center line of the bore sight. If it's on the center line or very close, I assume the scope and barrel are in alignment. If the reticle is well off center, I believe I can reasonably conclude that there's something awry with the mounts and/or scope rings. In such cases, I have nearly always found that changing the position of the mounts or rings -- front to rear, turning them 180, or a combination of both, will often correct the mis-alignment. If not, I will change the mounts and/or rings to another pair and try again. It can take a fair amount of time and fussing around to get it right, but I believe it's worth it. Especially if you're a bit OCD.

When I swap scopes, the first thing I do before removing the scope is to re-center the reticle (the center position between the far left and right of adjustment according to the bore-sighter). Then it is ready to mount on the next rifle with a point of reference for barrel-scope alignment. It really doesn't take very much off-center mounting of a scope mount or ring-- side-to-side or front-to-rear -- to throw off scope and barrel alignment. And it isn't good practice to sight in a rifle with the scope adjusted to near the extremes of the adjustment range. YMMV.

Doug
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:27 PM
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There is nothing wrong with using inexpensive rings, they either work or they dont.

Take it back to the store where you paid for them to do the job. Let them fix it. Any competent gun store employee should have noticed and fixed the issue.

But , many of them, unfortunately, have bad attitudes, and dont care about customers, or anyone else who isnt on their cool list.

You can tell if this is the case, if they blame the problem on the price you paid for the rings.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:31 PM
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I have a telescoping painters pole from HD that fits perfectly in 1" rings. With this I can easly see if the rings are misaligned and what corrections can be made by moving or mirroring the rings.

Mals
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mals9 View Post
I have a telescoping painters pole from HD that fits perfectly in 1" rings. With this I can easly see if the rings are misaligned and what corrections can be made by moving or mirroring the rings.

Mals
Painters Poles are notoriously straight

Actually, an excellent idea, could use a cleaning rod, or any other long straight
Cylindrical onject.

But id like to mention , ive never had this issue with a rail and regular rings.

Or with a one piece mount, either. Only with the dreaded dovetail
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:23 PM
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Yeah, you could take it back....they will sooo want to make you satisfied and have to 'eat the job'. But will you trust 'em?
That said, I might just do it and say "I aint got hardly any windage left" just to hear what they say. But Id be ready to walk too.
Problem is that the scope you paid for with however much adjustment range wont be able to use much of the elevation if it is almost full to the side of the round tube.
You can likely fix it.
Center the reticle
Set the gun up in a secure way to bore sight it, you should see the misalignment.
Then pop the scope and rings, inspect the rings where they mount up as well as the 'flip-plate' for either 3/8" or 11mm. As said, they are not the same but easily done wrong. If you find any burrs or a flipped plate get it all right. If this was a rifle with a scope rail this would be the time to check how it was installed and possible try to tweak it for some, if any correction of the issue.
Now lightly reassemble.
Recheck the bore sight to centered reticle and see if you did any good. Ideally you dont want to use (imo) more than about 1/4 of the windage adj. range; less is always better.
If no, or not enough, this is the time to start swapping the rings or even rotating one 180deg. to maybe get some offset.
After all this futzin (it isnt hard, just futzy) you will probably understand the whole deal a lot better. And if these simple attempts dont give you satisfaction maybe you can take the cheap rings back for a refund and buy some good ones.
IF they dont fix it you have bigger problems that may require the rings with integral adj. inserts.
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Old 05-04-2021, 06:34 AM
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I ordered set of "quality" rings (from our ebay ring guy) and my own scope level set. Those parts will arrive later this week. Though with my gun bench only 15' from my "work" desk, I just might take a quick look at it sometime this afternoon....
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