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  #1  
Old 05-07-2021, 12:29 PM
whiplash

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Why can't European ammo compete with American and Mexican ammo on price?



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The other thread praising the quality of European ammo "has gotten to me". European ammo costs more so I think there could be a bias that the accuracy is worth the price increase. For many of us this is not the case.

For us plinkers, hunters, and givers of ammo to amateurs, American and Mexican ammo is plenty good for the price.

So why can't Europeans/British make a 5-10cpr ammo for the rest of the world??? If they did it might lower prices ammo "around the world and for the children" who shoot.

I'd rather have 1000 rounds of American/Mexican ammo than 500 rounds of European ammo for what I do. Can't they help poor people and poor shooters out?
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Old 05-07-2021, 05:05 PM
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They don't need to. They make ammo for shooters in Yurp, where shooting is very much an activity for the well-to-do, and everyone is conditioned to spending 3x-5x as much for their ammo as we do. While they do occasionally produce ammo for N. American contracts [Wolf, etc.], that's normally to keep the factory busy & running at an even pace.

They should all be burning the midnight oil & producing boatloads of output to capitalize on the U.S. demand right now, but of course, they've been in lockdown due to the CCP virus even longer than we have, so the factories sit idle instead of turning out precious cargo by the container load. C'est la vie...
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:16 PM
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Living costs are usually higher in Europe. Taxes are higher too in many countries over there.

Fewer European shooters means less demand, therefore higher prices.

Then there are shipping costs, which not only have increased exponentially with the pandemic, but also have worsened the "dangerous cargo" restrictions and increased their handling prices.

Biggest civilian ammo demand worldwide is BY FAR in the US, so hard to compete with locally produced cheap ammo if you have to add S&H costs.

Mexican-made Aguila can compete 'cause wages are lower over there and probably they're also being benefited by free-trade agreements.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:23 PM
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Let us not forget tariffs and import surcharge for ordnance.
That surcharge can add up to 30% more to the cost per round.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:40 PM
Mike3838
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Something like Federal bulk pack like available at Walmart is "good enough" for hunting? I disagree! You owe it to yourself and to the animal you are harvesting to make a one shot, clean kill with little to no suffering. That requires the most accurate ammo and rifle that you can afford.
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Old 05-07-2021, 07:14 PM
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Also,guns, even the lowly 22 are restricted in Europe so most of the people who shoot a 22 are target shooting. No market, no makie.
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:28 AM
Mark1964
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Why would they want to compete on price? They know their niche and they certainly have an idea roughly how many Americans are willing to pay how much for Euro SV. Have you ever noticed how popular Center-X is here among competitive shooters?
They all also have their bargain brands or lines (Lapua owns SK, RWS owns Geco, etc).
I think they're more than likely quite good at what they do and doing quite well.

Last edited by Mark1964; 05-08-2021 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 05-08-2021, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike3838 View Post
Something like Federal bulk pack like available at Walmart is "good enough" for hunting? I disagree! You owe it to yourself and to the animal you are harvesting to make a one shot, clean kill with little to no suffering. That requires the most accurate ammo and rifle that you can afford.
I agree 100% with Mike on using the most accurate hunting ammo for taking game.
Would you hunt big game with your deer rifle that would hit a dinner plate most of the time at 50 yds. just because your game is a bigger target and you bought crap ammo that was really cheap? I have respect for the animals I hunt to take them with the most effective shot to do the job with no suffering or escaping to die a slow death.
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Old 05-08-2021, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
Living costs are usually higher in Europe. Taxes are higher too in many countries over there.

Fewer European shooters means less demand, therefore higher prices.

Then there are shipping costs, which not only have increased exponentially with the pandemic, but also have worsened the "dangerous cargo" restrictions and increased their handling prices.

Biggest civilian ammo demand worldwide is BY FAR in the US, so hard to compete with locally produced cheap ammo if you have to add S&H costs.

Mexican-made Aguila can compete 'cause wages are lower over there and probably they're also being benefited by free-trade agreements.
Exactly Antonio!

Frank
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Old 05-08-2021, 08:52 AM
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There are often more hoops for many Europeans to jump through to own and shoot firearms. Fewer Europeans plink and shoot as capriciously as North Americans often do. They consume less inexpensive, accuracy irrelevant ammo than North Americans. Therefore there is less demand for such ammo.

There's low quality, inexpensive .22LR ammo made in Europe, just not as much as there is in North America. Sellier & Bellot, for example, makes .22LR ammo that's not expensive and shoots poorly compared to match ammo. But it's not as cheap as bulk ammo and not nearly as good as match.

A key question is why would North Americans import large quantities of cheap .22LR ammo from Europe? If the tariffs don't add enough, the transportation costs add more. Where would the incentive be to bring in ammo that wouldn't be as inexpensive as domestically produced bulk ammo?

Those shooters for whom price is paramount and accuracy is irrelevant, domestic bulk ammo will prevail -- with the caveat of when it's available. When it's not, some shooters may ask why Europe can't help them overcome what's mostly a domestically-induced shortage.
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Old 05-08-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike3838 View Post
Something like Federal bulk pack like available at Walmart is "good enough" for hunting? I disagree! You owe it to yourself and to the animal you are harvesting to make a one shot, clean kill with little to no suffering. That requires the most accurate ammo and rifle that you can afford.
Federal bulk pack is accurate enough to make head shots on small game.
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Old 05-08-2021, 11:17 AM
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Federal bulk pack is accurate enough to make head shots on small game.
Ya I think so also where I hunt in Mn. average small game shot for me is
25 to 35 yards.
Here is my hunting ammo I use.


Plenty good out too 50 yards in my CZ 452.
But would like to by some more some day
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:17 PM
whiplash

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Many good things that I hadn't considered. Maybe the global market is about right for both American and European shooters at this time.
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:25 PM
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And, sometimes you get what you pay for. I had a friend put 500,000 miles on a Mercedes diesel sedan. RWS seems fair priced to me.

Once could ask why RWS or Mercedes dont make cheaper junk for the American consumer. Actually, I think Mercedes might do just that. I dont know, not my brand.

Last edited by fourbore; 05-08-2021 at 01:31 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2021, 08:31 PM
john the plinker
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Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
And, sometimes you get what you pay for. I had a friend put 500,000 miles on a Mercedes diesel sedan. RWS seems fair priced to me.

Once could ask why RWS or Mercedes dont make cheaper junk for the American consumer. Actually, I think Mercedes might do just that. I dont know, not my brand.
Actually they do (or did, anyway) make cheaper cars for use in Europe. They know they can't compete with the U.S. and Japanese makes here so just send the higher end models. When I was in Germany even many of the taxis were MB.

Back on topic, if you keep an eye open you can find the lower end offerings of the Euro makers for only slightly more than say, CCI SV. Geco, in particular is very competitively priced, same as Eley Action especially the bulk packed. And I've found both to work better in a wider range of rifles than the CCI.
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