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  #46  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:18 AM
Bill T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardboard_killer View Post
The S&W final hardening treatment dulls the finish, so the dullness is by design. If you polish it up, it losses that treatment, which inhibits rust.
That's the first I've ever heard of that, and I don't buy it. And here is why. I have a Ruger "Target Grey" finish on my .454 Super Redhawk revolver that I purchased new around 10 years ago. I had read back then, Ruger said the reason for the unattractive, dull looking finish was because it was a, "Special Stainless Steel" that was required for the high pressures generated by the .454 Casull Cartridge, (65,000 PSI). I have the exact same gun in .44 Magnum, which has a beautiful brushed Stainless Steel finish.

Fast forward to today. Ruger sells both the .454 Super Redhawk, as well as the .454 Super Redhawk Alaskan in the same beautiful, brushed satin Stainless Steel, as they do all of their other Stainless Steel revolvers, regardless of caliber. The fact of the matter is the, "Target Grey" finish guns were no "stronger"... They were cheaper and faster to produce. Just like S&W's dull, scratched Stainless finish they are putting on many of their Stainless Steel guns. The Model 617 among them.

Ruger's "Target Grey" finish turned out to be very unpopular. Which is why Ruger dumped it in their revolver lineup. No one wanted it. Even on their bolt action Model 77 guns, they have gone to a bead blasted Stainless Steel, instead of that ugly, "Target Grey" finish. The bottom line is it costs money to put a nice finish on Stainless Steel guns. Because it is a very difficult process to automate. It basically has to be done by hand. It's got nothing to do with, "strength" or, "rust resistance". Proof of that is you don't see highly polished Stainless Steel guns from Ruger or Colt rusting. If they did it would be all over the Internet.

All Stainless Steel guns will rust, even Smith & Wesson's. The Stainless Steel used in their construction is, "rust resistant".... It is NOT rust proof. The Nickel content of the Stainless Steel used in firearms manufacturing isn't high enough. If it were, it would be far too difficult to machine for what they charge. So they all opt for a more free machining material.

S&W guns are polished frequently by their owners, in order to improve the lousy, dull, scratched up finish S&W applies at the factory. While the highly polished guns will show small scratches and fingerprints easier, they won't be anymore susceptible to rust. Regardless of what they may advertise otherwise.
  #47  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:47 AM
David Valdina is online now
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No rust allowed in Arizona...

With the extremely high temperatures and very dry air, rust is not allowed to form in Arizona. But Bill is correct.
  #48  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill T View Post

Fast forward to today. Ruger sells both the .454 Super Redhawk, as well as the .454 Super Redhawk Alaskan in the same beautiful, brushed satin Stainless Steel, as they do all of their other Stainless Steel revolvers, regardless of caliber. The fact of the matter is the, "Target Grey" finish guns were no "stronger"... They were cheaper and faster to produce. Just like S&W's dull, scratched Stainless finish they are putting on many of their Stainless Steel guns. The Model 617 among them.

S&W guns are polished frequently by their owners, in order to improve the lousy, dull, scratched up finish S&W applies at the factory.
Did you originally post just to bash the finish on S&W's stainless steel guns and tout Ruger's finish? I just took a look through the Pictures thread, and there are many examples of S&W SS rimfire revolvers in it. You know, some of them look pretty darn good.

Buyer's choice; if you don't like it, don't buy it.
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  #49  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:51 AM
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My Single Ten is prettier than my 617, but the 617 is more accurate, more fun to shoot, and consequently gets far more range time.

I hope that Bill T does find a 617 with a finish that he finds acceptable; it is a fine gun.
  #50  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:55 AM
Bill T
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Originally Posted by cabin22 View Post
I hope that Bill T does find a 617 with a finish that he finds acceptable; it is a fine gun.
I hope I do too!
  #51  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:55 AM
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Improving the looks of a gun...

A friend of mine took a stainless steel S&W revolver and polished it. It took a long time. The results were spectacular. I forget the name he posts under and will try and find out to see if he ever put photos of the revolver on RFC. I do recall he had disassembled it so as to be able to do a really good job.
  #52  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:27 AM
Bill T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Valdina View Post
A friend of mine took a stainless steel S&W revolver and polished it. It took a long time. The results were spectacular. I forget the name he posts under and will try and find out to see if he ever put photos of the revolver on RFC. I do recall he had disassembled it so as to be able to do a really good job.
Hand polished S&W Stainless revolvers look spectacular. But it is a labor of love.
  #53  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:05 PM
Bill T
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I don't see why Smith & Wesson cannot offer something like this at an increased price, direct from the Performance Center. I would stand in line to have a S&W 617 finished like that! Ruger offers a bright Stainless Steel finish on most all of their Vaquero line. And the added cost is really quite reasonable for the hand work that is involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1uBHUTe-9U
  #54  
Old 06-18-2017, 01:24 PM
jimd441
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Bill T- I totally agree and would have been glad to pay more for a great finish. It seems to me that with very few exceptions, there has been a trend away from producing fine looking guns. I like pretty guns and know of many that are long discontinued models. Even Weatherby is part of this trend. Take a look at their website and notice the plethora of ugly but highly functional guns. Now, remember what their lineup looked like years ago...

I'm sure it is just the manufacturers responding to demand, and maybe I'm old school, or at least old, and like a good looking gun.

Jim
  #55  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:02 PM
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[QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardboard_killer View Post
The S&W final hardening treatment dulls the finish, so the dullness is by design. If you polish it up, it losses that treatment, which inhibits rust.

Quote:
That's the first I've ever heard of that, and I don't buy it.
I don't buy it either. Makes you wonder where some of this "information" comes from.
  #56  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:50 AM
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It is not a hardening treatment. It is called Passivation which is an acid treatment bath that reacts with a micro layer of the surface to dissolve the surface iron molecules (iron is what rusts) and helps with rust prevention because those surface iron molecules are no longer there. The result is what a factory stainless S & W firearm looks like with it's dull sheen to it. Removing that micro passified layer by polishing (not wax polishing, but mechanical polishing) exposes a fresh layer that has iron in it. I know it looks great, but you just have to go that extra step with your favorite wipe down oil and not store it in anything that can attract moisture or foreign chemicals (like a holster, pistol rug, etc.).

Last edited by ViperR; 06-19-2017 at 07:57 PM. Reason: added text
  #57  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperR View Post
The result is what a factory stainless S & W firearm looks like with it's dull sheen to it.
Brian W doesn't buy it! I will rent it! At a discount!
  #58  
Old 06-20-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dgludwig View Post
I don't buy it either. Makes you wonder where some of this "information" comes from.
I admit it; it's a Bolivian disinformation plot so we won't polish our S&Ws so bright that Bolivian women flock to the USA, the source of all those shiny objects. I got sucked in when I visited the Mother Country and their intelligence agency recruited me. It was too hard to resist their promises of Argentine S&W knock offs.

  #59  
Old 06-20-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill T View Post
I don't see why Smith & Wesson cannot offer something like this at an increased price, direct from the Performance Center. I would stand in line to have a S&W 617 finished like that! Ruger offers a bright Stainless Steel finish on most all of their Vaquero line. And the added cost is really quite reasonable for the hand work that is involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1uBHUTe-9U
I purchased a 686 .357 from a buddy a few years back at a really good price. When he gave it to me, the cylinder looked like it was originally blued but well worn. When I examined it, I realized it was stainless but well coated with powder residue, never seen a gun as dirty. I got it home and picked up a jar of mag wheel polish. In an hour, that gun shone.!! Not too much effort for a very satisfactory end result. Incidentally, it shot well but I only ever shot 38s through it. Tony
  #60  
Old 06-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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https://wine.appstate.edu/sites/wine...nlessSteel.pdf
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