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  #1  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:43 PM
fourbore
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Match barrel for 22LR Upper and a several Q's



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I would like to build an accurate complete upper receiver for a AR15 in 22LR. Like to use a 6-18x Leupold and shoot 1/2 " groups at 50 yards or better with std vel or medium level match ammo such as RWS target rifle or equal. Basically get an AR that will equal a CZ bolt. Real CZ not an internet imaginary gun.

I am making a few assumption please correct if either 1 or 2 are in error.

1. I can use an aero complete upper receiver with a conventional charge handle and dust cover and forward assist. I dont care if the assist works.

2. I can use a 22LR bolt, which is the SAME for either a conversion or a dedicated upper in 22LR? If not please tell me which bolt is right. And any suggestion or warning for reliable feeding. I guess reliable ignition in a good quality bolt?

The big question, what is a good choice for a barrel. Perhaps match chamber, smooth as glass rifling and good crown. I would hope to stay under the $400 class barrels, if I could got 1moa for $200? Please tell me my options.

Also just curious, for top accuracy do any of you try and compress some shims to get a extra tight fit on the two receivers?
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 07:58 PM
AVB

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You don't want a standard charging handle, you want the one made for .22 with out the cut out for the gas key. The worst jams I have had were when running the conversion bolt with the standard charging handle. The cut for the gas key leaves room for a spent shell to get wedged between the bolt and charging handle.

The bolts are different. The conversion has an adapter shaped like a .223 case to fill the chamber, the dedicated bolt does not.

Last edited by AVB; 07-24-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2016, 09:36 PM
fourbore
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AVB,

Thanks. That is two key points I missed. I have seen 22 LR bolts and I guess the listing assumed the buyer knew what he was doing.

Then, I want what is called "dedicated" bolt and 22 charging handle. Maybe someone offers that as a set?

I have a complete aero upper and a spare carbine floating for arm. I need a barrel, bolt and handle. And the mag. I know about the mags.

Edit: Starting to look pretty hopeless..... No standards, no idea what works with what.

Last edited by fourbore; 07-24-2016 at 10:01 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:10 PM
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I started with a conversion, I think it was a cmmg. It works pretty decent. Then early last year Bud's had the Chiappa complete upper on sale and I got it. It has worked really well so far. All the parts can be installed into a standard upper. I am not sure what other barrels will work with it though.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:24 PM
AVB

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Model 1 sales offers a ER Shaw barrel for their conversion kit, but it is expensive. About $320

It looks like all of their .22 barrels may be E.R. Shaw. The one above is the 20" fluted stainless extra heavy barrel.

Last edited by AVB; 07-24-2016 at 10:28 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:53 PM
PigButtons
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If you want to go for a known package that will all work together, be super accurate, and from a guy that will make it right if there is a problem, look at taccom3G.com. I have the carbon fiber complete upper and bolt conversion kit and it works on all of my lowers. I can't say enough good about Tim, the owner. When I was looking for my unit he spent about an hour on the phone on a Sat, going through all of the particulars, though his business has grown significantly so he may not have that kind of time anymore.

The tensioned barrel is super light weight and yet gives great accuracy. A little pricy but buy once cry once. I started out with a CMMG and although it ran fine the accuracy was not that impressive. I learned from that and now never worry about getting good hits out to 50. I'm not sure I can meet your 1/2" requirement 100% of the time, but 85 to 90% is a no brainer with Geco rifle.

Just so you know, other than speaking with Tim a couple of times 4 or 5 years ago, I have no other connections to his company.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:14 PM
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He has some nice stuff at taccom3g. Thanks for the tip.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:14 AM
papawman
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I just finished my first .22lr ar build and took it to the test bench this morning.
25 yard with about 10 different brands ammo
More interested in function than accuracy at first
DPMS target upper and lower "no ej port cover"
CMMG dedicated bolt and their 16" bull barrel
Free float hand guard and A2 stock
Using black dog 15 round mags. Everything fed.
Nikon 22 scope.
25 yard are basically ragged holes.
This is not an expensive barrel but surprisingly accurate.
Might have just got lucky. My granddaughter also shot about 100 mixed rounds.
With groups just as good.
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2016, 08:31 AM
LDBennett
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I put together two different AR-22's in the last 10 years. In my opinion, the whole of the upper is better served by a 22 conversion complete upper unit rather than a bunch of parts adapted to an AR upper. The first one was a Tactical Solutions (TacSol) complete upper. The second was a CMMG complete upper.

The TacSol upper would indeed meet the accuracy standard but it was a bit pricey. You get what you pay for. The design was unique, extremely well thought out, well made, and works flawlessly. It looks good as well and fit the AR lower perfectly. With my 223 lower with a two stage trigger the gun is a whole lot of fun to shoot target with. I love this combo!

The CMMG conversion complete upper was certainly the lesser of the two with a reduced price, as well. I would not expect it to meet the accuracy requirement. The barrel is not match grade (the TacSol barrel is!). The version I got from about two years ago was a kludge, in my opinion. It was basically the device they sell as a drop-in for a 223 upper where the 223 barrel of the original gun is used, mated to a 22LR barrel. The device had a chamber that plugged into a recess in the CMMG barrel. It was no better than using the adapter alone. They just threw together parts from their CMMG adapter parts bin and avoided a complete redesign of an upper to accommodate the diminutive 22LR cartridge. It was a terrible design, in my opinion if accuracy was your desire. It worked fine in operation but ended up a plinker and not a match gun. But that is to be expected based on its price point. (There may be a newer version designed differently?????).

There are other AR-22 uppers but I know nothing about them. The TacSol is one of the more expensive ones and is match grade. The latter versions seem to no longer use an all steel barrel andI have no information about them. The CMMG complete upper is fine for plinking. Maybe a newer version, if there is one, is of a better design and of a match grade but the one I used was NOT.

LDBennett
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:19 AM
fourbore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVB View Post
Model 1 sales offers a ER Shaw barrel for their conversion kit, but it is expensive. About $320

It looks like all of their .22 barrels may be E.R. Shaw. The one above is the 20" fluted stainless extra heavy barrel.
I only see 10/22 barrels on the shaw web site.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also found a reference that ccmg and dpms ar15 22lr barrels do not interchange. That means there is no standard. The bolts are not the same either.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appears AR15 in 22 long rifle is a whole different ball game. I can buy complete ccmg, dpsm, apparently tacsol uppers. But the 22LR in AR is it not an option to assemble parts from various sources as I might a 223, or 6.8 where there is availability of standardized parts. Nothing like Ruger 10/22. I mis judged the situation.

I appreciate that tacsol will build one for me, I want to build my own.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2016, 04:15 PM
VASCAR2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
I only see 10/22 barrels on the shaw web site.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also found a reference that ccmg and dpms ar15 22lr barrels do not interchange. That means there is no standard. The bolts are not the same either.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appears AR15 in 22 long rifle is a whole different ball game. I can buy complete ccmg, dpsm, apparently tacsol uppers. But the 22LR in AR is it not an option to assemble parts from various sources as I might a 223, or 6.8 where there is availability of standardized parts. Nothing like Ruger 10/22. I mis judged the situation.

I appreciate that tacsol will build one for me, I want to build my own.

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Generally speaking building a 22 LR upper is not completely compatible between manufactures. The CMMG, Spikes, Model 1 are based off the Atchisson/Ciener pattern bolt. The main difference is the barrel stub which the conversion collar slide on. The collar for CMMG and Gen 1 DPMS barrels is .460. The Spikes, Model 1 and TACCOM3 use a .500 collar.

Tactical solutions uses a different pattern bolt with a feed ramp attached the the chamber end of the barrel and is proprietary and parts are only available from Tactical Solutions.

Chiappa uses a bolt design very similar to Tactical solutions but out of cheaper material without the QC of Tactical Solutions. The Chiappa uses a polymer upper reciever, non threaded barrel and front sight tower held on by screws and not pinned.

Nordic has recently released a complete upper which uses a very similar bolt to a Ruger 10/22. The Nordic designed bolt barrel design has been used by DPMS Gen II dedicated uppers and JP inc. JP-22.

Clint Beyer is selling high quality AR-15 barrels that use the Atchisson/CMMG pattern bolt and these barrels get very good reviews in regards to accuracy. If I were building an accuracy first upper it would be with a Beyer barrel.

http://www.beyerbarrels.com/barrels/ar15_barrels

JP inc. Rifles and 22 LR uppers get very good reviews but are expensive.

Custom Lake Engineering produces a Service Rifle upper in 22 LR which are probably some of the most accurate 22 LR AR-15's but these are also expensive and are built using M-261 22 conversion bolt.

Last edited by VASCAR2; 07-25-2016 at 04:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2016, 05:17 PM
papawman
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My own opinion
Any conversion that uses a 5.56/.223 conversion insert to mate to a .223 barrel is just not going to give the accuracy anyone wants. Wrong twist, wrong diameter and long jump to the rifling.
I have two of these . Both are US Military issue. One is US Army the other USAF.
The are the same except marking and have standard issue magazine .22LR inserts.
The CMMG dedicated bolt is Stainless Stee and very well made unit and feeds well from black dog magazines. I have problems wit both the CMMG Mags. Several barrel makers build target grade barrels fot the CMMG bolt. As i stated before I have excellent accuracy with the CMMG heavy 16" Barrel.
The Bolt, Barrel, Charging Handle and Magazines are all that is not normal see it everywhere parts. You cand use a standard Charging Handle but the have a slot for the gas key that sometimes will catch a .22LR case stopping your fun.
They are a straight AR Build other than the required .22LR parts.
Put it together and have some .22LR FUN.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2016, 06:41 PM
AVB

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
I only see 10/22 barrels on the shaw web site.
---
I was going by what Model 1 Sales claims on their website. If you do build or buy a Ar.22 when it comes to magazines make sure you get some metal lip Black Dog Machine mags. I have some of the older all plastic BDM mags that I need to send back because the bolt has broken the plastic feed lips.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:48 AM
LDBennett
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The newest Black Dog Mags have steel lips but the plastic lipped mags were still available last year. Steel lips is definitely better!

The inserts for 22 in a AR-15 223 gun are only for convenience. If you want an AR in 22 caliber you have to go with a complete upper where everything is a new design expressly for 22LR cartridges. The reason I don't like the CMMG complete upper is they use the insert converter in their complete upper design. It works fine but is not an elegant design. For the money these complete 22LR upper cost, I deserve more than a kludge. I love my TacSol (all steel barrel from several years ago). The CMMG complete upper was for a relative, was cheaper, and really nothing more than a plinker. It shot well enough for the task at hand but it would not do for me.

LDBennett
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:03 AM
fourbore
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VACCAR2,
Thank for that last post of what works with what. The nordic (dpms gen II) "sounds" good. Not sure why, simple, ruger like? Or perhaps being used by 3 makers is close to a standard. No funny collar or feed ramp business. ( I guess)

The beyer bbl would need a ccmg bolt.

I understand now.
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