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  #16  
Old 01-17-2015, 07:39 AM
chim
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My "I 75's" have a safety and click plate like shown on the left of the picture, giving them dry-fire capability. Note the dimples (safety on/off) and longer slot shaped depression ((allows the lever to travel up & down to reset sear) on the plate and the elongated hole in the safety lever so the lever can move back and forth on the pin.

Some of the pistols are easier to get into and out of the dry-fire mode than others.

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  #17  
Old 01-17-2015, 09:50 AM
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Chim & Cramiekske,

Thanks for the update and information. My "I 75" was the last .22 I obtained for my display as it is the only one I have been able to purchase that could be verified it was sold by BAC. It is mint and I have not taken the grips off and as I said I could not get a dry-fire to engage, Maybe it is just dry. I am heading to a gun show, but upon return I will pull the grips, inspect and respond. Cramieske, It is not a big deal what name is used for the same pistol and I know most of the names. My concern is , it appears many reading the forum tend it mistake some of these names as being different pistols i.e. FN calling the I 75 an International and BCA calling the same pistol an International Medalist. Also, we must remember by 1977 (when these were being sold) FN had purchased 90% of BAC so the names on the barrel addresses could be sold everywhere, so now you will find BAC addresses elswhere than North America. It is quite confusing and sometims I don't want to get into this because it takes a lot of thought and knowledge to figure what has happened. They wanted to sell guns and anything goes, not what the collector wants to hear. Tonight I will post a picture of my "I 75" in the Styrofoam box with sleeve for you to see. I appreciate seeing the plastic FN box. Even though BAC was owned by FN, to my knowledge, BAC never sold the International II made in France., but it was imported by another Company and sold in the US. Thanks again for the input, Mark
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2015, 02:41 PM
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Chim, Cramiekske and all,

First, let me apologize as my "I 75" International Medalist does have a Dry-Fire mechanism. I removed the grips and found what you showed. After a pretty good tug it went into the the Dry-Fire. It appears it had never been set in this pistol and was very hard at first, a little shot of oil and it works better now. With the way the the safety lever is set into the grip (very close) I could not get the force to set the mechanism. It is odd the catalog information does not mention this system as they made a big deal out of it in the earlier catalogs on the earlier Medalist. I study all these models and display them, but I have never shot this model and I have now received a lesson which I appreciate and say Thank You.

My FN manual is on my display board and I am not able to view at this time, but my pistol has the BAC Medalist manual enclosed and as with my GP competion Hi Power which came with both the FN and the BAC manual I had understood it was for the registration card which is not attached to the FN manual, but in this case I see it would also explain the Dry-Fire mechanism. I also found the grip sides are numbered as to make a set. The grips on this BAC marked seem a much nicer finish than I have seen on most, although Chim's is very nice also.

Below is the picture showing the Styrofoam box with sleeve. It appears the only item I am missing is a wrench to tighten the nut on the magazine to limit the number of cartridges, if one exists. You can possibly answer this question and if one did come with this pistol where might I get one? Please let me know if anything else is missing or anything I should know.

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  #19  
Old 01-17-2015, 03:17 PM
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Nice pistol. I'll bet those International Medalist grips are comfortable, especially if you have large hands.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2015, 10:54 PM
chim
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I like seeing the pictures and info on the old Brownings. I posted this picture before but since the topic of grips came up, here it is again. The pistol with the poorest finish is the one I had hard chromed. All three of the pistols are dated 1975. It looks like there were at least 3 different vendors used to provide grips. Unless you saw these pistols together the differences may go unnoticed. None appear to have been modified or refinished at all.

I wanted a set of adjustable target grips for a Belgian frame. I would prefer Nill or Rink, but no luck. XL Nills (on other pistols) fit me OK. Nills aren't available, so I managed to get a pair of the largest Rink grips. They're too small, so #2 Son was gifted so he could try them on the first model International he'll probably keep. As a last and somewhat painful resort I carved up one of the factory grips to make it fit better. They feel great and I'm afraid to try to finish them off nicer because it may change the fit. With an improvement to my average slightly in excess of 9 points this season over last year, why take the chance? I'm not under any illusion - the grips are ugly.





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  #21  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chim View Post
I like seeing the pictures and info on the old Brownings. I posted this picture before but since the topic of grips came up, here it is again. All three of the pistols are dated 1975. It looks like there were at least 3 different vendors used to provide grips. Unless you saw these pistols together the differences may go unnoticed. None appear to have been modified or refinished at all.

I wanted a set of adjustable target grips for a Belgian frame. I would prefer Nill or Rink, but no luck. XL Nills (on other pistols) fit me OK. Nills aren't available, so I managed to get a pair of the largest Rink grips. As a last and somewhat painful resort I carved up one of the factory grips to make it fit better. They feel great and I'm afraid to try to finish them off nicer because it may change the fit. - the grips are ugly.
I agree completely with Chim, the variations in grips on an International are like leaves on an oak tree. And there are no 2 identical. Initially I thought I had a pair of nice grips, but after shooting them for a while I noticed they were not as comftable as I would like them to be. Also they were only for Right hand shooters, and since I also practice with my left hand I was stuck on that point, so I decided not to carv the original grip as Chim did, (mainly because I don't have the skills for it) so I decided to put a more adapted modern Challenger grip on my International, which I found on eBay for around 15 USD.
Have not yet regretted this for a second.

Old grips


New grips

Last edited by Cramiekske; 01-18-2015 at 10:13 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-22-2015, 09:58 PM
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sorry being late to the party. I came across this thread during a google search while researching a pistol I recently bought at auction. Got it pretty cheap and then had to figure out what I had.

The grips are unmarked and left handed and I doubt factory. The sights are missing, as is the weight.


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  #23  
Old 06-22-2015, 11:11 PM
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Interesting, but it appears you have what FN called a .22 L. R. Automatic Pistol on the outer box and "International" on the manual. It was all Belgian made with the "I" serial. It was not the International II which was made in France with the Alpha-Numeric serial, although they look the same. These pistols were made for the 1976 Olympics and were mostly sold in Canada, from what I have found, although Browning Arms Company cataloged them in 1980, but were shown in their wholesale price lists from 1977-1980. The left hand grips are the same as used on the Browning Arms Company (called) International Medalist "T" serial, but was referred to by FN as a Medalist with a 5 7/8" barrel and sometimes referred to as a 5.9" or a 150mm barrel. FN made the same grip for the European market, but they had an oil finish instead of the gloss on yours. The nut on the one magazine came with this type pistol to be able to limit the number of cartridges from the full capacity of 10. Hope this helps, Mark
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  #24  
Old 06-29-2015, 09:01 AM
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Please excuse me...but I am also coming in late on this interesting discussion, and would like to follow-up on the dry-fire mechanism. Please refer to "Chim"'s post above, post #16 for details and pictures that apply.

Like Chim once posted, it would be interesting to see how many parts are different in the dry-fire mechanism, and if it would be reasonably easy and possible to retrofit these pieces to other guns (Challengers ?) that supposedly don't have this feature.

I have an original 1978 version of the factory parts lists for the Nomad / Challenger / Medalist series...and have found some interesting (but also conflicting) information.

For example, the Medalist click plate that Chim shows...is listed as part number PO51730 for "Nomad"....but shows part number PO51731 for "Challenger and Medalist". This is odd, as Chim's picture clearly shows that there needs to be a matching piece, the safety with the "hook" ( to presumably allow recocking in the dry-fire mode). Again, from the parts list, we find this for the safety lever.... part number PO51980 for "Nomad and Challenger"....and part number PO51984 for "Medlaist". If the click plate information is correct, then we should expect the safety to be the same for Challenger and Medalist, but it is not .

I don't have my pristine '74 Challenger (bought new) apart in front of me at the moment...but my recollection is that there may be a "slot" in the clickplate like Medalist. Can others here confirm?. Does somehow the Challenger have this feature all along, and we don't know it? (LATER EDIT.....found this thread where someone had a Challenger with a Medalist click plate, and the responders here had no idea how that feature got there as a possible factory fitment---> https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...ght=challenger)

Aside....as to parts numbers. I notice that the 1978 factory parts list uses a PO51XXX numbering system, whereas my Challenger owner's manual removes the "PO" and also removes the "1". For example.... Challenger sear is 5791 in my owners manual....but is shown as PO51791 in the parts list. Did anyone notice this?

.

Last edited by IPSC; 06-30-2015 at 12:30 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-01-2015, 10:25 AM
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I am beginning to believe Browning Medalists-Nomads-Challengers-CIIs & CIIIs are like snow flakes..... No two are alike!

VH
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  #26  
Old 07-01-2015, 10:34 AM
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VH... no doubt....however.....I've now seen a number of Challengers with the Medalist style click plate, and wonder if it has the same dry-fire capability as Medalist. Seems to me that the Challenger would then also need the "hooked" safety lever of Medalist....I have never torn-down a Challenger ( with Medalist click plate) that far to know for sure.

Maybe Chim, Seaotter, or others closer to the game here may offer an opinion ?

The other possibility is that during original assembly at the factory, there is nothing wrong with installing a Medalist click plate in a Challenger, as it would function as well either way in the anticipated Challenger condition ( ie, no dry-fire capability).
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  #27  
Old 07-01-2015, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by IPSC View Post
VH... no doubt....however.....I've now seen a number of Challengers with the Medalist style click plate, and wonder if it has the same dry-fire capability as Medalist. Seems to me that the Challenger would then also need the "hooked" safety lever of Medalist....I have never torn-down a Challenger ( with Medalist click plate) that far to know for sure.

Maybe Chim, Seaotter, or others closer to the game here may offer an opinion ?

The other possibility is that during original assembly at the factory, there is nothing wrong with installing a Medalist click plate in a Challenger, as it would function as well either way in the anticipated Challenger condition ( ie, no dry-fire capability).
OK. As I have all 3 off them, a Medalist, a Challenger and an International, and it was time to give the Challenger a cleaning I observed that mine - fabrication date = 1962, so an early model - also has the double click plate as in the Medalist.




what it does not have is the bend safety switch as you can see in Chims pictures (middle one), so it's impossible to engage. I have not yet tried to disassemble my International and see if I can transplant the complete rear safety. But as it looks to me I think the Challenger has nearly everything on board to have the dry-fire mecanisme



Sorry for the large pictures.

Last edited by Cramiekske; 07-02-2015 at 05:14 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2015, 12:47 PM
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Cramiekske....Thank you for the pictures....usually "big" is no problem, but these are HUGE ! Perhaps there is a way to slightly resize these before posting?

Anyway....to add to the data-set, I will soon take possession of a fire-damaged ( but still perfectly functional) Challenger....as a resurrection project (!)....more to come on this topic on a separate thread. From the many pictures I received from the seller, here is one that ALSO seems to show the Medalist click plate installed. Gun is 1968 build-date---> I think the combination of Medalist click plate plus the "hooked" safety lever ( with the elongated "hole")...might be all you need to get a functioning dry-fire feature. I am not sure about this as there may be yet other parts involved, but a scan of the Browning parts list with schematic seems to indicate this is all we would need.




.

Last edited by IPSC; 07-01-2015 at 12:52 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2015, 08:14 PM
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To go even further...a few years back I bought a parts-kit from a Nomad. I got most all of the gun's internal parts except the frame. Here too...among all the Nomad parts...we find a click plate that is most certainly configured like a Medalist part. In other cases....like the sear spring, it was definately a Nomad sear spring...and not a Challenger or Medalist spring...so I am sure all the parts came from a Nomad. In this picture the click plate is flipped-over, but it is a Medalist type. It is beginning to look like ALL the Belgian Brownings (Nomad, Challenger and Medalist) were fitted with the Medalist click plate. I have yet to see a "Nomad" style !! A few of us forum members have gone offline to discuss and check this point on our own guns...and so far it seems to be true.


Last edited by IPSC; 07-02-2015 at 09:13 AM.
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  #30  
Old 07-02-2015, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by IPSC View Post
Cramiekske....Thank you for the pictures....usually "big" is no problem, but these are HUGE ! Perhaps there is a way to slightly resize these before posting.
@ISPC. Pictures have been scaled down. The initial HUGE pictures where uploaded directly from my iPad. Did not have the option to reduce them. My Bad :-))

My Challenger is broken down to pieces, Have done the same with my International and see if transplanting the safety and other piece give the Challenger any dry fire capabilities. I think I have all the pieces ready for the transplant. Now just need a bit of extra time, and "Murphy" out of the way. :-))


PS. On second thought, would a Buckmark in this case not be able to have dry-fire capabilities, they are based on the same original pistols. (Just thinking out of the box)

For those affectionado / interested in these old school pistols. There is a nice 3 episode on old school Browning on YouTube
Links: part 1 - http://youtu.be/_Pb7j9ih0dA - part 2 - http://youtu.be/TCnJt2MBZZg - part 3 - http://youtu.be/oZ1dzxLezcg

Last edited by Cramiekske; 07-02-2015 at 06:30 AM.
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