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  #46  
Old 05-16-2008, 12:10 PM
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Lukeshoot, I feel sorry that you have to deal with this situation. All you need to do is the following. 1. Buy a 1 piece rifle rest. 2. Use only the type of ammo you have found to be the best so far. 3. You shoot at 100 yards. 4. Have another shooter at the range shoot. The rifle will or will not group at about 1 to 1 and 1/2 inches at 100 yards. 1 and 1/2 inches at 100 yards is being very kind to the rifle, my $200, 22 Mag will do that or better. I am sure you paid a bit more for your CZ. Anything over 1 and 1/2 inches at 100 yards, the rifle is a lemon. Send it back.

Last edited by JOHNB9; 05-16-2008 at 12:13 PM.
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  #47  
Old 05-16-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeShoot View Post
For all of you with .243 Win's, how many types of ammo did you try and what was the variation in POA and group-size???
I've only shot the one ammo type in mine. Hope to change that eventually this year.

I agree with JohnB9. Your rifle should put just about any kind of factory ammo into 1.5-1.75" or less at 100 yards, and it ought to put at least one type into darn close to 1"--if not less than 1". This is not some WWII surplus K98 we're talking about here, this a brand new rifle built to modern standards and tolerances. Unless you've got a bad scope or something is loose in the scope mounting system, it should be shooting better than it is.
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  #48  
Old 05-16-2008, 02:35 PM
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Plain and simple send it back. There is no way the thing should shoot this bad. I returned a new rifle last week after trying everything I know to make it shoot. One round would shoot a decent group and it was a bullet that should have been to heavy for it to be shooting. Everything else was horrible. I tried 5 different factory loads and 8 of mine that would shoot under 1/2" at 100 and four off them will do it under a half at 175. Nothing but shotguns patterns out of the thing. At 50 it would shoot fair at 25 great. I would expect nothing over 1 1/2 out of your rifle at 100. Short of the bases about to fall off return it. the 25 yd groups should have been what it was doing at 100. It was shot off of Caldwell rock rest, Uncle Buds bag, and a bag of my own making which is better than 80% of what you can buy in the store. I already had the trigger worked to a crisp 2lbs and shot it rock steady. Sometimes a lemon gets out, there were spiral cuts in the rifling when I did a close up inspection of the crown trying to figure out what was wrong with the blame thing. If you still want to try it find someone with a Caldwell Led sled and tie the thing down where you pretty well know it's going no where and give it a try. By the way that didn't help mine either. Totally unacceptable for yours or any other bolt action rifle. By the way get a Remington or Savage next time instead of something pretty and you will come out a whole lot happier and save some money, too if you like to shoot a lot.

Last edited by terryo; 05-16-2008 at 02:42 PM.
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  #49  
Old 05-16-2008, 04:35 PM
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Why not buy a rifle that comes with a Guarantee?

"Accuracy equals success. Every ICON™ is factory tested and MOA certified. Premium button rifled barrels are certified to deliver sub MOA accuracy (1" or less at 100 yards)."

I am getting a T/C ICON in 7mm rem mag in a few months. I would never buy a centerfire that is not Guaranteed. Why take a chance when you can get a sure thing for the same price range?
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  #50  
Old 05-16-2008, 09:40 PM
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My buddy has a 243 that really likes the Hornady 75's (or maybe they were 85gr V-MAX), but his preferred load is still the Fusion 95's. Sure sounds like you have done everything right to me and are probably beyond basics. Borrow some extra sandbags from one of the other benches and really bunker yourself in front, middle, and rear of the stock, and try shooting it without the set trigger too (assuming you have all of the creep adjusted out of your main trigger). I haven't done nearl as well with my 527's set trigger as I can do with my 453. More overtravel on the 527, and just more abrupt to me. But if you can't get it to go in one or two more outings, I think I would think seriously of giving CZ a shot at it. A free tune-up might just do the trick, and if not I would probably move it on out. There is no reason why a good 243 shouldn't shoot 1/2" at 100 with the right factory load. I dare say you should be able to find a couple, although POI will more than likely be different.
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  #51  
Old 05-16-2008, 10:24 PM
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I had a stainless Ruger Mini 14 several years ago that would spray bullets all over the place. It would have had a hard time hitting the side of a barn from the INSIDE!

I didn't have it very long!

I had a ??? (Taurus maybe?) small pistol that looked like a shrunken 1911 in .380. It would not reliably chamber FMJ!

I didn't have THAT very long either!

This has nothing to do with your case except to show that there ARE lemons, even in guns.
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  #52  
Old 05-16-2008, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNB9 View Post
Why not buy a rifle that comes with a Guarantee?

"Accuracy equals success. Every ICON™ is factory tested and MOA certified. Premium button rifled barrels are certified to deliver sub MOA accuracy (1" or less at 100 yards)."

I am getting a T/C ICON in 7mm rem mag in a few months. I would never buy a centerfire that is not Guaranteed. Why take a chance when you can get a sure thing for the same price range?
Does someone make a rifle that's not guaranteed if bought new? They may not guarantee under moa but if they don't suit my needs they will get it back until it does. Any Savage or Remington bolt I've ever shot has shot under moa with something. My Remington and Encore would do under and inch at 175 yds. and just because they shot it under an inch doesn't mean the owner can. Dad sent an old Remington 740 back to factory one time because it had a primer hung up in it, They replaced the receiver at no charge. Little brother had a Remington 22 with a broke piece in the receiver, replaced at no charge. These 2 rifles were old and not the original owners no bill of sales needed and no proof of purchase. I had problems with my Savage 17 with misfires and extraction didn't want to send it back because I didn't want my trigger reworked. Called them told them the problem what I thought it needed and they sent me everything I asked for with no charge. I love T/C's but they are no better than the person behind the trigger.
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  #53  
Old 05-18-2008, 05:51 PM
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"Does someone make a rifle that's not guaranteed if bought new?" I have read many stories, mainly about Remington. Someone buys a new model 700, tries everything to get it to shoot like in this thread. The rifle will do no better then 2 inches at 100 yards. Remington says, "That is acceptable accuracy for a hunting rifle." There is no way I want to end up in a situation like that, or like the one that started this thread. I am not bashing Remington, just using an example of a story I read about a rifle that does not come with an accuracy guarantee. They only guarantee that it will go Bang when the trigger is pulled.
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  #54  
Old 05-18-2008, 09:41 PM
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Well, here it is. Shot 5 rounds of 5 types of ammo. I had two other types but I think this is enough to tell the story.



I changed nothing from one shot to the next (except ammo).

I shot these without the single-set trigger. The other targets were shot with the SS trigger.




And here is something else...








I know i should have cleaned things before the picture but, how does this crown look to you...and what about those two rings about 1/8" into the bore??? Those are not the only ones. I can see those machining marks as far down as I can shine a light.

Last edited by LukeShoot; 05-18-2008 at 09:44 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-18-2008, 11:47 PM
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reply :

LukeShoot : At what distance were you shooting ...? It's apparent that the Winchester 100 gr. shot the best ... I'd stick with those ...

I'd say there's nothings wrong with the rifle / scope ...

I'd say you'll notice improvement group wise if you'd concentrate on marksmanship skills and that means "doing everything the same way" each time you squeeze the trigger ... That means the position in which you shoulder the rifle, the pressure of the rifle against your shoulder, the downward pressure on the fore stock, and the pressure and position of your cheek to the stock ... You've got to look through the scope the same way each time !

Through the years, I've owned and shot a few different .243's ... Most shot very accurately using 85 and 100 gr bullets ....

I'm sure if you shoot a lot, you'll become proficient and satisfied with your .243 ! ! !
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  #56  
Old 05-19-2008, 12:27 AM
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If that is 50 yards the only round that looks acceptable is the Winchester you already knew shot the best. Some people can't shoot the Set trigger. I don't know why but for some people the groups are just huge with it. Others are the opposite but I would adjust the trigger in the non-set position to give the pull you like and try it a bit more. I would give CZ a call no matter what. If they say it is acceptable they say it is acceptable. Then you will be right where you are now. On the otherhand you could have it fixed to shoot much better. Only one way to find out.
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  #57  
Old 05-19-2008, 06:11 AM
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All targets are at 50 yards
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  #58  
Old 05-19-2008, 07:15 AM
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In my book I think the rings are your problem. I had the same in the rifle I sent back. The only thing mine would group was 75 gr Hornady and it only did that twice. This was in a 1/9 H&R 223. I know this is a cheap toss around rifle but is also a shame to by an "ULTRA VARMINT" with a 24" fluted barrel that will not hold 3" at 100 yards. I may get it back some day, they've had it two weeks, and if it's no better I'll trade it for a Savage or Stevens and be done with it. I felt the rings were probably tearing up the bullet going down the barrel, also when cleaning the last couple inches of the barrel seemed extremely tight instead of getting a little lose at the muzzle. By the way they did e-mail me back and told me specs on the "ULTRA VARMINT" was 2 1/2" at 100 yds. I would hate to know what there specs are on a normal rifle. As long as the Varmint wasn't over 25 yds you might get the bullet to hit where you aim. I've still had good luck with my Remington's but if my thoughts are right the people that bought out Remington also bought out Marlin and H&R and Bushmaster and DPMS and if not watching will buy out S&W who now owns T/C . As far as Marksmanship I'll shot with anybody it had nothing to do with it. I shoot 250 to 500 rounds a week and can do 1/4" and under at a 100 with my Remington and old encore and my 10/22 will put 10 rds in under an inch & a half at 100 all day so that had nothing to do with mine. The rings like mine appear to be cut all the way to the lands, what happens to a bullet run down a grader?

Last edited by terryo; 05-20-2008 at 07:14 AM.
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  #59  
Old 05-19-2008, 08:39 AM
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If that pic is posted at full size (which seems to be the case, near as I can figure), those groups are completely unacceptable.

Even the best of them is nearly an inch at 50 yards. This rifle's WORST groups at 50 should be in that area, not its best. (That group shows me that the problem is the gun, not you, as apparently you can shoot.)

Contact CZ-USA and tell them you are unhappy and see what they say about the thing.
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  #60  
Old 05-19-2008, 09:47 AM
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I am not a big fan of the single-set trigger (on this gun). As someone else put it... "It's like puting your finger in a mousetrap".

I shoot about the same with or with out it.

It is too abrupt, touch it and it jumps like a mousetrap slaming shut.
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