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Old 05-12-2008, 05:28 PM
LukeShoot

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Centerfire Accuracy Question???



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I bought my first centerfire this past fall, a CZ-550 American in a .243 Win.

I have always heard that rimfire rifles are very picky about ammo and that you must try many different brands to find what shoots best in your rifle.

For some reason I was under the impression that centerfire rifles were less picky or that factory centerfire ammo was much more consistant.

I have tested many different brands of .243-Win ammo in my CZ-550 and several different weights (58, 85 and 100-grain). I have tried soft-points, ballistic tips, electroplated bullets, solid copper and molycoat.

I have tried two different scope.

I have spent a lot of time and money on this so far and the only ammo that has shot acceptable so far is 100-grain Winchester Super-X Power-points and some hand-loads that a guy at the range gave me to try.

By acceptable, I am talking under 1.5 inches at 50 yards. I can do better than with Mini-Mags in my CZ-452.

I donít think I am asking for too much here.

The other ammo that I have tried can barely hold 3-inches at 50-yards.

Is this normal?
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:45 PM
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How many total rounds have you fired through your first centerfire?

NOT a put down by any means...but it takes a little time to shoot centerfires accurately.

I see many people semi new to shooting that expect too much too fast. Rimfires are much more forgiving. Consistent technique, a solid bench and practice is the key.

And yes centerfire rifles are also ammo picky. I tried about 5 factory loads and 5 reloads in a 220 Swift and wasn't real pleased with any I tried. I was ready to trade that rifle in. Then I tried Federal Premium and the rifle loved the stuff. I still have the rifle and 10 boxes of FP to shoot.

You say that you tried two different scopes...what scopes have you used?
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:50 PM
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All centerfires I shoot all shoot handloads. You need to start reloading if you want better accuracy.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizzy View Post
All centerfires I shoot all shoot handloads. You need to start reloading if you want better accuracy.
But, don't you think he should be getting much better that 1.5 inch at 50 yards with decent factory ammo. I think something else is going on here.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:44 PM
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comment

The same shooting techniques apply to shooting center-fire as rim-fire ... Ammunition, (bullet weight), is also a determining factor and that's primarily determined by the rate of twist .... The facts and figures are available in the web, just "Google it" ....

I shoot a 270 and a 308 ... The 270 using 130 gr will print one hole at 100 yds ... The 308 using 150 gr will print the same ... The factory ammunition I use and prefer is Federal Premium ! The 308 using "anything" will group under 1/2" at 100 yds ....

If I were you I'd make sure the rifle has no loose screws and every thing's "nice and tight and quite alright" ! and go through the same drill as with a rim-fire rifle ....

Hope that helps ?
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBendy_Elbow View Post
The same shooting techniques apply to shooting center-fire as rim-fire ... Ammunition, (bullet weight), is also a determining factor and that's primarily determined by the rate of twist .... The facts and figures are available in the web, just "Google it" ....

I shoot a 270 and a 308 ... The 270 using 130 gr will print one hole at 100 yds ... The 308 using 150 gr will print the same ... The factory ammunition I use and prefer is Federal Premium ! The 308 using "anything" will group under 1/2" at 100 yds ....

If I were you I'd make sure the rifle has no loose screws and every thing's "nice and tight and quite alright" ! and go through the same drill as with a rim-fire rifle ....

Hope that helps ?
Couldn't agree any . more. Bought a Mossberg atr with scope combo that was supposedly bore sighted. A .243 as back up to my primary hunting rifle. Very inexpensive combo. Went to sight it in and had nothing but problems. Tried a variety of ammo and groups got worse. After my 3d range effort and lots of ammo, I discovered that only 1 screw in the entire scope setup was tight....My mistake for not checking...but I learned a big lesson. After things were tightened up, I got great groups a 100 yards and took 2 bucks and a pig and turkey with this bargain rifle...Mossberg's response was not really reassuring...Gee we'll look into it....
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jedwil View Post
But, don't you think he should be getting much better that 1.5 inch at 50 yards with decent factory ammo. I think something else is going on here.

Yes he should. I stopped typing in mid stream and didn't finish what I wanted to say. He should be cutting the same hole at 50 yards, even with factory ammo. At least clover leaf groups anyway. He either has a crown issue, or a bedding problem. But that is still extreme for bedding. I would say its the crown or you just have a bad barrel. Possibly head space is wayyyy off.
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:34 PM
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My first centerfire rifle was a Winchester Mod 70 Varmint grade. It did not shoot worth a darn with factory ammo. I started reloading with a $10 Lee Loader and a Lyman beam scale. My reloads shoot sub MOA through it. However, to get that good takes time to work up loads.

Right now my project for that rifle is an accurate load with the 85 gr Sierra HPBT bullet. I will load 5 rounds at a starting powder charge. 5 more, increasing the charge by 0.5 gr., etc. I will do this until I have 20 rounds, then shoot for accuracy at 100 yards. I will repeat this process with 4 different powders.

It's a lot more work that buying a box of ammo at the store, but the results are, in my experience ALWAYS more accurate that factory ammo.

Hector
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:40 AM
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I am using the CZ rings that came with the gun. They are very high quality and they are tight.

I stripped the gun down to clean it when new and stripped it two other times to recheck everything.

I have been diligent in removing copper fouling. I get much more that my 17HMR.

I used proper barrel break-in procedures.

I have tried a Mueller APV and I currently have a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20 X 50mm on it.

If the problem is a loose screw or a bad scope or a defective shooter/owner, it would not consistently shoot the Winchester 100-grain power-points well.

The barrel is free-floated well from the factory.

I may try to bed the receiver however, I have never found this to be a miracle cure on the few rimfires that I bedded.

The crown looks good to me, I can post some pictures of it when I get home.

I bought some Wolf ammo that would not chamber (head-space problem). I called them and sent it back but did not get any feedback from them. I am pretty sure it was the ammo and not my gun.

I donít think a 1Ē three-shot group at 50-yards with a single-set trigger, X20 magnification, adjustable-objective, on front and rear sandbags is asking too much from the gun, the ammo or me the shooter.

Thanks for your help. I will try to post some targets.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:53 PM
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My Marlin 22 mag shoots them in a sub 1/2 inch hole at 50 yards. CZ has a great rep for accucary. Check that the barrel is free floating by running a dollar bill under it. Run a Q tip around the crown, check for burrs. The 243 win is not a hard kicking cal, I doubt even if you are flinching, you would not be able to group at 50 yards. To rule you out, have another shooter at the range shoot your rifle. More important then ammo brands are bullet weights. 243 win ammo goes from 55 gr to over 100 gr. Your rifle might only like very light or heavy bullets. If none of this helps, your rifle might be a lemon. You should be under a dime size group at 50 yards.

After re-reading your 1st post, I see you have tried different bullets weights. I think you have a bad barrel, wrong chamber size or rifling twist rate. Send it back to CZ.

Last edited by JOHNB9; 05-13-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:13 PM
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at 50 yards they should be in the same hole. i'd bed it, and check the trigger. how are they stringing? up/down or side to side? this could help us help you. side to side could be you pulling on the trigger. up/down would be bedding, all over the place crown work. can you post pictures of the targets and rifle barrel crown after being shot. put some white out on it and see how the powder burn looks. i believe it should be a star pattern and not a big smudge. put a bullet covered in marker ink in it and chamber it to see were it is hitting the lands. this will tell you if it has a head space problem.

Last edited by derekcasey; 05-13-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:26 PM
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As to your comparison of bedding from rimfire to centerfire. Centerfires ar much mor critcal to corret bedding. A rimfire does not have a recoil stroke nearly as hard as even the light kicking .243.

If the barreled action to stock fit changes from shot to shot so will point of impact.

Have you asked CZ-USA about this issue?
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:24 PM
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I have the same rifle exactly it will shoot two bullets same hole at 50yards with my reloads.I had the same problem at first CZ said give it a cople hundred rounds tops and if it did not get better send it back and they would take care of it.I have shot five shots in the Bullseye at 100 yards with my loads.The gun shot a turkey in the neck at 75 yards it is great.I just shot it no proper brake in or anything.I would try different ammo my gun hates Remington but Federal is ok in factory stuff.CZ will take of it if need be.
Hope this helps.
ohmslaw
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:12 PM
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I'd say something is wrong with your rifle. I'm of the impression that .243s are inherently accurate and it shouldn't take too much work to get one to the one MOA neighborhood (or better).

Last fall I bought my very first-ever commercial centerfire rifle, an old Remington 700 in .243 that turned out to have been made in 1969. Lord only knows how many rounds have been through it. I bolted on an old spare TASCO scope from my junk box, and bought a box of some kind of .243 ammo (I don't even remember what kind it was) from Walmart just to sight it in. Took me only five shots to get a pretty good 100 yard zero, whereupon I fired this three-shot group, which measures exactly .600".

I've since bought a better scope, and will be working up handloads for this rifle, as it seems to want to shoot.

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Old 05-13-2008, 04:51 PM
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I bought a Remington 770 combo in .243.this is not an expensive setup,but I tried a couple different kinds of ammo.and out of my .243 with remington 100gr.core lokt it will consistantly shoot 3/4" or less at 100 yards and about 1 1/2 " to2 1/2"s at 200 yards.I think that I read somewhere(and I may be wrong)that the .243 out to a certain range has very similar balistics to a .22-250.let me know if I am wrong about that,Neil
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