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  #61  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:47 PM
jpickar

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
I've purchased the hi v 22lr in boxes of 50 and 100.
Fine for pistol or semiauto use at short range, but at 50 yards plus,
visible cartridge defects and MV spread produced less than satisfactory results.
I'd of enjoyed trying those consistent hi v you have at 200 yards,
just to compare to the match SV 22lr.
I like guns, I really like 22's, and I love shooting them. I have spent thousands on 22 ammo. At one point I shot over 25 different rifles using over 30 different brands and types of ammo. I don't remember exactly as I forgot the exact number of rifles and types of ammo. I have it all written down and charted. But what I got from it all is Remington barrels give a faster velocity and Remington barrels gave the best groups. So I sold all my other target rifles and focused on Remington. I have owned or own 6 40X's and 4 Springfield M2's. I dearly love the M2, By far the highest quality 22 I have ever handled and shot. Some may see it as a Armoury Trainer. I see it as a rifle that I can shoot with the factory receiver sights and hit 3/8" twigs at 50 yards with the sun behind me of course. I can hit the twigs 50% of the time. All my other 22's have to have scopes on them these days.

My first 22 I messed with was a Remington 510 barreled action I paid $7.50 for at a gun show when I was still in school. I carved out a stock for it. I drilled and tapped it for a scope and I spent the summer shooting Win. Super X ammo at prairie dogs at 200 yards. Toward the end of the summer I was hitting a prairie dog with every third shot. No one told me it can't be done so I went and did it.

I shot my first buck with a Wards Western Field 22 at 35 ft. using CCI mini mag HP ammo. He ran 40 yards and dropped. I admit I was lucky I didn't hit a rib going in. That was 50 years ago.

I hope to shoot at least another 20 years before I move on to the next world.
John
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  #62  
Old 10-17-2019, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
OK so the theory is there is less drift in a vacuum. I don't shoot in a vacuum. I shoot real world. I get less drift with HV ammo over subsonic ammo. Which makes sense. What does that say about the theory?
Actually the words "Background Theory" are used in Dan Periard's report regarding the work done by Robert McCoy. https://kestrelinstruments.com/mwdow...d/link/id/100/

Although "Theory" means an educated guess and I do not believe they are guessing whatsoever when talking about 22 HV and wind drift.

This "Vacuum" thing is simple, without any air resistance...ie vacuum...the bullet loses no velocity at all...simple....so whatever it leaves the muzzle at it remains at that velocity.

"Edit" Vacuum. is a starting (calculation) point for bullet velocity (Muzzle Velocity/downrange velocity without loss) used to calculate velocity loss in both the SV and HV 22LR bullets.

The Hi Velocity bullet is such that it occupies that higher drag Mach 1 speed of sound area "while it is at/near Mach 1's higher velocity". Because of this it loses a greater percentage of its velocity, versus standard velocity (while HV ammo's at/around that Mach 1 speed) which is said to subject it more to the influence of a side wind.

You probably know that already..that it is basically proven.

Please read on......

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
With approx 10 to 15 mph wind at an angle at 100 yards. Win Power Points will be about 4" low and right. With subsonic or target ammo I will be about 8" low and right.
Wow. Confused I am? You didn't say a side wind? But what a result? You didn't say how far right? 4" right and 8" right?? (Note: If 8" right that seems like quite a bit?) You're not in the mountains are you? Thin air? I might have to hang this one up? Not sure I have an answer? Sorry you've probably had it up to "here" with what likely should be and what your own observations have seen.

Last edited by NIB; 10-17-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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  #63  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:08 AM
jpickar

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Wow. Confused I am? You didn't say a side wind? But what a result? You didn't say how far right? 4" right and 8" right?? (Note: If 8" right that seems like quite a bit?) You're not in the mountains are you? Thin air? I might have to hang this one up? Not sure I have an answer? Sorry you've probably had it up to "here" with what likely should be and what your own observations have seen. [/QUOTE]

I never bought in to the theory that going from supersonic to subsonic destabilizes a bullet either. Not with the target I posted.
I'm not tired of this, just saying my experience is different than theory.
The wind in central Montana does get with the program every once in a while.
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  #64  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jpickar View Post
I never bought in to the theory that going from supersonic to subsonic destabilizes a bullet either. Not with the target I posted.
I'm not tired of this, just saying my experience is different than theory.
The wind in central Montana does get with the program every once in a while.
Got it JP. I needed to mention that for those reading my previous post that I threw in "thin air" realizing it would actually benefit the bullets passage thru the air. As you said JP the wind in C.M. gets with the program meaning the rifle must shoot bullseye when it does.
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  #65  
Old 10-22-2019, 09:35 PM
Quest
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Smile Stretching out .22lr to long distances

I am as opinionated as most. But I take a scientific approach to ammo testing. So, this is from my experiences...

If it isnít accurate at 50 yards, its isnít going to improve at 100 yards.

Low wind days outdoors on the 100 yard range are rare.

Even on a still day, group size moving from 50 to 100 yards is not the same MOA but the same MOA times 1.15 to 1.30 based on ammo quality, wind and such.

So your 0.50 group at 50 will translate to as much as 1.3Ē at 100.

SD in ammo velocity is almost meaningless as JALA said. Itís all ES.

But once you move to auto-loaders like 10/22ís there are other factors.

All my bolt guns shoot better with better ammo; more expensive, more consistent like Tenex, Midas. The lesser of these rifles may not show a huge difference going from $11 a box to $18 a box just because they will have enough flyers or spread already.

Again, autoloaders are different. My home assembled heavy barrel 10/22 likes R100 and SK flatnosed match just as much as Tenex. My $395 Ruger with the swirly barrel is the same.

When you do a physical exam of the bulk HV stuff it is obviously of poorer quality. When you shoot it, it is obviously of poorer quality.

I donít know about the aforementioned Winchester HV. And again R100 works decently well for me in bolt and autoloaders and in the autoloaders - so does Eley Force.

Cast bullets are prone to having issues of consistency of mass and of dynamic stability. These little .22 pills are very much that way.
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