ferritic nitrocarburizing: Melonite, Tenifer, etc - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:20 AM
graycrait
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2002
Location: 
Clarksville, TN
Posts: 
1,151
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
ferritic nitrocarburizing: Melonite, Tenifer, etc



Log in to see fewer ads
Has anyone ever had or heard of 1022 barrel that has had this process done? If so, who did the ferritic nitrocarburizing? How much did it cost? Did it affect anything in a postive or negative way?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:32 AM
Yotecallr's Avatar
Yotecallr
Law Enforcement Officer NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jul 2003
Location: 
Iowa
Posts: 
602
TPC Rating: 
86% (6)
For the pressure and barrel heat a 22LR generates, I don't think you'll see it applied for rimfire use.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:28 AM
nodak
National Guard Veteran

Join Date: 
Aug 2002
Location: 
ND
Posts: 
4,197
TPC Rating: 
100% (43)
Absolutely not needed in a rimfire but I'll bet in 5 years it becomes a normal upgrade. The longer one is in a sport/hobby the easier we justify high cost for minimal gains. Look at say magazine releases. Not needed by any means but we all want them.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:14 AM
FJFEDDERSEN
RFC Sponsor
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

RFC Sponsor
Join Date: 
Apr 2012
Location: 
TENNESSEE
Posts: 
498
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodak View Post
Absolutely not needed in a rimfire but I'll bet in 5 years it becomes a normal upgrade. The longer one is in a sport/hobby the easier we justify high cost for minimal gains. Look at say magazine releases. Not needed by any means but we all want them.
Hello,
Our Costomers use that process on the 223 barels.
Im going to get 10 done to test. The case thickness is about 2.5 microns
Fred
We just may add that as an option.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:27 AM
ZappBrannigan
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Location: 
Near Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 
30
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I am a disgruntled Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer by trade. A lot of our parts get nitro-carburized etc.. I know for some softer steel pins we manufacture it significantly toughens up the wear surfaces giving longer life to the product.

I personally couldn't see any reason to do it for a .22 but it certainly wouldn't hurt either.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:40 AM
nemohunter's Avatar
nemohunter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2005
Location: 
north east missouri
Posts: 
8,645
TPC Rating: 
95% (77)
Sweet a 22 barrel with enough life to put three people in the poor house buying ammo for it


Standard barrel life is in excess of 1million rounds already. Melonite treatment is worth at least 2x barrel.life maybe much more. 2 million rounds of ammo. That's $80,000 of the cheapest ammo you could buy lol.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:58 AM
Markbo is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! UotM

Join Date: 
Mar 2003
Location: 
Houston
Posts: 
10,697
TPC Rating: 
100% (8)
So for say... just for the sake of discussion... a fellah had an AR .223 that saw a lot of use at Prairie Dog towns. This kind of treatment is a viable option to extend barrel life??? Does it do anything to slow throat erosion? How much does it cost?

You know... just for the sake of discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:12 PM
graycrait
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2002
Location: 
Clarksville, TN
Posts: 
1,151
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Here is why I asked and it may have no relevence to anything. I just have some time. I was talking to an experienced RFC'r who thinks a lot of Molyfusion treatments. There seems to be others on RFC. However, I cannot find any internet links to other serious .22LR shooters who even mention it other than old threads similar to, "anyone try this stuff?"

On a couple of occasions I have polished Glock slides and barrels to a near mirror finish and never did anything to them but they never rusted. Other guys saw my "shiney" Glocks and pried them out of my hands.

Now that I am re-entering a 10/22 crazy phase (on the cheap) I was just wondering if Molyfusion is so good why wouldn't Tenifer/Isonite/Melonite treatment of a .22LR barrel be as good or better?

Plus it seems it would make the barrel durable as heck, that way careless lazy folk like me could abuse it with boresnakes with the bristles, jointed aluminum cleaning rods or even not clean it all for a millenium. Then there would be the issue of how smooth could that bore be made if it was Rockwell 64 or so but still be fully engaged with the bullet? Whereas if Molyfusion is so good, but needs to be redone periodically, a "Tenifered" .22 barrel would never need to be redone.

Not trying to start a war with tradition or anything just wanted to know if someone had done this and seen what the results were. Sometimes technology is a good thing. One of my other hobbies has shown me that carbon, titanium and now something called graphene, as well as Kevlar and other new poly products have changed things dramatically.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:49 PM
Xane

Join Date: 
Jul 2011
Posts: 
1,187
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by graycrait View Post
Not trying to start a war with tradition or anything

gc, actually you are right in line with RFC traditions! Wouldn't we all be using bone stock 10/22's here otherwise, and be minus about a million threads?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Skeeve's Avatar
Skeeve
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! Appleseed Member Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Lo-Cal So.Cal., where the money is plastic & the people are too!
Posts: 
2,155
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by nodak View Post
The longer one is in a sport/hobby the easier we justify high cost for minimal gains. Look at say magazine releases. Not needed by any means but we all want them.
I'm sorry, are you talking about 10/22 extended mag releases in particular? Because for me, they're absolutely a necessity unless I want that verdammt factory mag release digging into the quick on the back of my thumbnail every time I go to pull a mag out...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:44 PM
nemohunter's Avatar
nemohunter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2005
Location: 
north east missouri
Posts: 
8,645
TPC Rating: 
95% (77)
Melonite is a heat treatment process that increases the hardness and durability of the barrel. Molyfusion is a metal treatment that reduces friction. Two totally different things. Fwiw if your an Ar over dog town kinda guy Melonite treatment would help reduce erosion considerably extending barrel life. As to the cost that's a mystery to me. If I were looking for Max life I would get a hammer forged Melonite barrel. They supposedly have a 25k life span. Of course were talking greater than dog town accuracy requirements I'm sure but if you doubled your usable life wouldn't that be something. There is also an S Carb process for stainless as well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:20 PM
graycrait
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2002
Location: 
Clarksville, TN
Posts: 
1,151
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Does anyone know if by changing the outer layer of the molecular structure through this "Tenifer" process that maybe the coeffient of friction is improved? Or maybe improved over conventional barrel steel through lapping? Then the question might be if you could make a Tenifer barrel "slicker" wouldn't Molyfusion make the "Tenifered" barrel even slicker. Or would the now changed outer layer structure of the Tenifered barrel prevent Molyfusion from working as well as it does on steel with a "softer" outer layer? Of course the process may make no improvements and possibly the opposite.

I suspect the barrels Mr. Feddesen is having done will prove educational. As he mentioned, "Im going to get 10 done to test."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:15 PM
M2HB's Avatar
M2HB
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2004
Location: 
Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 
28,601
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
POF does it on all of their AR barrels. It is better than hard chrome because it doesn't ruin the accuracy of the barrels. I had them send a short Rick Keuhl barrel that I had and it turned out great. I use the upper on a full auto firearm. I can't say enough good about the nitride treatment. It requires no finish and resists rust as well. I think this will be the future for gun barrels. I have also had it done on a M1A barrel and others as well.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:12 PM
nemohunter's Avatar
nemohunter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2005
Location: 
north east missouri
Posts: 
8,645
TPC Rating: 
95% (77)
Tenifer is a surface treatment just like mf. Your comparing surface treatments to heat treatments. Apples to steak as it were.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:00 PM
graycrait
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Dec 2002
Location: 
Clarksville, TN
Posts: 
1,151
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Your comparing surface treatments to heat treatments. Apples to steak as it were.

Yeah, maybe, but until the proof is in the pudding no one will know. Mr. Feddersen makes good barrels for a living. No harm no foul, but if he says it is not worth the cost or effort then so be it.

I have some friends in the military relooking at Molyfusion, both as a firearms treatment and if it was used in in bulk in the automotive industry. My theory is if Molyfusion was a miracle then it has to have been copied by the Chinese or Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is all over it.

I am not even really that interested if "Tenifer" is good for 1022 rifle barrels. But I would like to debunk "notions," even my own, that don't hold water on either side.

My suspicion is that Molyfuision is a commonly known treatment in some other industry under another name. However, ferritic nitrocarburizing may not have been exhauastively tested in .22lR barrel making. If Fred says it is useless in 1022 barrels I will leave it alone. Then those guys who still have quantities of Molyfusion in their garages can still make a few bucks in "performing the miracle" until those supplies run out.

Craig
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x