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Old 11-08-2018, 01:44 PM
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Are 16 inch barrels really faster!



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I happened to be looking through some of my bookmarks and ran across this one. I'm sure someone posted it in the past and it's called Ballistics by the inch.

Some very interesting data and what it tells me is that people who worry about weather I should buy a 16 or 18 inch barrel have more to worry about because their data shows that even the velocity can vary not only with the brand of ammo but the same ammo can be faster in a 22 inch barrel then a 23 inch barrel of two different rifle brands. I would guess that the velocity can vary from rifle to rifle depending on the barrel quality and bore diameter. Not only that but the difference between a 16 and 18 inch barrel can be pretty small again depending on the ammo. (I'll bet a prairie dog can't tell the difference in 30 FPS. I actually shoot them up to 100 yards with my 10/22 and ammo at 1050 FPS). I guess the old adage "A 16 inch barrel gives the highest velocity" may not necessarily be true.

Any way here is the link . Enjoy
Ballistic by the inch
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:07 PM
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Apparently for 357 magnum they are! Thanks for the link.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:36 PM
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shorter = stiffer = more accurate
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:57 PM
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I have a problem with their data and the conclusion drawn from it.
Check the sample size and the velocity spread.
How can they determine the muzzle velocities recorded were actually due to barrel length
and not due to the variations in cartridge quailty and primer/powder amounts?
I see that specific defect in multiple data points in each of the tests done with rimfire.
I'd need a much larger sample size using a single lot of match quality ammo
minimum of 50 shots plotted for each length, then do the graph analysis through the center of cluster.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter2678 View Post
shorter = stiffer = more accurate
that is very dependent on the rifle and setup:

my 50y personal bests with each of my rifles:

1. Anschutz 64 MPR .087" Lapua pistol king (25.5" barrel)

2. kidd bull barrel 10/22: .156" SK magazine (16.5")

3. CZ 452 Varmint: .172" Eley Team (20.5")

4. GM HT sporter 10/22 .196" SK (17" GM HT 10/22)

5. CZ 452 American .202" SK (22")

6. Olive Oyl Feddersen 10/22 .209" CCI std (16" bull)

7 Anschutz 64 match .227" SK magazine (26")

8. kidd bull 10/22 .255" Eley Match (20")

9. Clark bull 10/22 .271" Eley Match (21.5")

I also had a 16.5" cz 452 american that was good for 1/2" at 50y. i have an anschutz 64 sporter thats a 22" barrel that has shot 3/8", a kidd 16" that wouldnt hold 2" at 50y, and the replacement they sent me for that one that barely shot 1/2" at 50y with lapua. I know my results are not even close to scientific, but they are the results and IMO every barrel is different and some are better than others no matter what the length or contour.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:57 PM
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shorter = stiffer = more accurate
The last of that isn't true.
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:37 PM
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The last of that isn't true.
assuming the barrel is a quality one to begin with id say it is more times than not.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:13 PM
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I too have read a rather long report of an experiment in which a rifle barrel was progressively reduced in length, an inch at a time, and velocity measured. I wish I could find it - I'm on a mission to track it down.

If I remember correctly, only "standard" velocity ammo was used - may even have been "target grade". The upshot of it was that the velocity did increase, consistently, with reducing barrel length, until around the 16" mark. Further reduction of length then started to impact velocity by reducing it.
A couple of things to note: -

1) There was a point where velocity had increased to the extent that what was originally sub-sonic now became marginally super-sonic. Not a problem if you're only shooting at say 25yd, but there will be a definite reduction in accuracy at any point beyond which the bullet goes through the trans-sonic zone, and beyond.

2) In general, Anschutz target rifles have/had a "standard" length barrel. A long barrel allows a long sight radius which is very desirable for target rifle with aperture sights. More recently their barrel length has been reduced somewhat, but the now common usage of the "bloop tube" negates that problem.
I have an Anschutz rifle specifically made for the 50mtr Running Target discipline. As made, it has a short barrel but also a "bloop tube" screwed onto the end so that the balance weight can be attached where it serves best purpose for the rifle swing (moment of inertia).

I have no reason to believe that the data gained from that experiment is in any doubt.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:32 PM
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I think that the shorter barreled length of some competition rifles is not related to velocity, but to 'dwell time' of the bullet in the bore. When shooting offhand, or probably running target, you want that bullet out of there before things move around too much. The extra velocity fps from a 16" barrel vs a 25" barrel could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on what you were doing.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:52 PM
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assuming the barrel is a quality one to begin with id say it is more times than not.
No short barrels ever compete at ARA events and win.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by No1_49er View Post
If I remember correctly, only "standard" velocity ammo was used - may even have been "target grade". The upshot of it was that the velocity did increase, consistently, with reducing barrel length, until around the 16" mark. Further reduction of length then started to impact velocity by reducing it
Standard velocity is the key. Hyper Velocity throws that key out the door. And at the same time they took the same barrel. Good you say but correct? The Ballistics by the inch study used various barrels of differing bore surfaces. If this study did the same and found the same equal velocity ratio loss then I'd be much more interested in their numbers. Friction is a predictable variable but what happens to 22's when a different quantity of friction gets added to the rounds burn rate? Where does that put that rounds loss/gain numbers at?
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:25 AM
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A Mathematical look at Barrel Length/Velocity/Pressure.

Maybe these are wishful thinking numbers because the SK Match graphs max V. at 30 inches of barrel length?

http://ammoguide.com/myag/articles/t...y_Pressure.pdf

One thing I think is certain, different barrels will give different velocities.

USA 22 ammo MFG's all use 24 inch barrels and most manufactures in Europe use 26" for 22's.

Does that mean all their data is sluggish? Or could there be extra gain from those well used smoothed out bores?
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:13 AM
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I really don't think it makes enough difference with 22 LR to worry about. I've shot a lot of little varmints over the years with everything from a 5 1/2" to a 24" barrel and when I hit 'em where I was supposed to they fell over dead.

I have never chronographed any 22LR ammo or barrels. All I can say about barrel length is that the shorter the barrel the louder it is and that goes for any caliber.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:28 AM
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This whole thing about shorter, thicker is really hard to quantify. As anyone in the precision game knows, buying an X long, Y thick barrel is a bit of a crap shoot. Two barrels of the "exact" same dimensions, made by the same maker, on the same machines, one will be a barn burner and the other a bust. Yes high end barrels tend to more accurate than mass produced ones and to say a 16 inch factory barrel on a 10/22 will be more accurate that a heavy 26 inch Lilja/Shilen/Benchmark/ or other brand is a stretch.

It's all about harmonics and harmonics are in large part a function of barrel sag. You can have a long thick barrel that has the same amount of sag as a short thin barrel. In centerfire, you can handload to get the best match to the barrel harmonic. In rimfire some have some success by "finding what your barrel likes". But, cutting a crappy barrel that is 21 inches long to 16 inches will not make it a good barrel. The only people I know tht cut a barrel shorter are doing so to clean up the crown. ( Disclaimer: I'm not talking about short barrels for less weight or better handling)

If short barrels are more accurate, why do barrels being used in benchrest competition tend to be long? These folks are not there to lose so the must know something. They generally tend to use tuners and they know that a longer thinner barrel tends to respond more to the tuner settings. I have a 26 inch .920 barrel that has a tuner but does not respond well to the tuner but is still cap[able of shooting in the sub .2 groups at 50 yards. I also have a a 21 inch Lilja barrel on my Benchrest 10/22 that is capable of shooting in the .2s.

I once saw a picture of the .22LR rail gun that shot the .197 group at 100 yards. It was an 1 1/2 in diameter and was at least 26 inches long. So much for shorter barrels being more accurate.

BTW, it was Chief Dave who did the experiment of cutting an inch at a time, much the same as done in the link. I of all people know about the "He didn't test enough", "He used the wrong gun", He didn't test XYX", "He used the wrong analysis". After spending about 10 years looking at ammo sorting and presenting reams of data, I heard all the above comments by those who refused to believe that sorting rimfire ammo did something.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:45 AM
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My two cents .
Every barrel is as unique as the number of opinions here . No two are the same .
With that said , I’ve had better luck with shorter barrels for accuracy out to fifty yards .
I think the reason is , with a shorter barrel , bedding isn’t as important as it is with longer barrels . Just my opinion .
I cut a Green Mt SS 20” and an 18” SS bull barrel to 16.25” , and both now shoot tighter groups for me with just an inner tube pad at the end of the stock . No other bedding. I guess I’m locking the barrel into the stock , leaving the receiver floating. It works for me .
I once owned a Ruger Mark II 6 7/8” slabsided SS Pistol I attached a 3-9X32 rifle scope . Resting on a front rest that pistol would shoot with my rifles . It would stack ‘em .
As far as being faster . It’s been written that for speed anything over 10” of Barrel starts slowing the bullet down .
Kirby

Last edited by Bigbluegill; 11-09-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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