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  #31  
Old 06-06-2021, 09:26 AM
870TC
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Protektor has not responded to my direct inquiries.
and to what Hicksville Kid has found...now that you mention it, I have gotten better results with a firm grip too..
Had not thought to look for " cast" in a rifle stock-assumed they were neutral. ...but upon looking at mine it appears to have some "cast on"- where the toe of the stock is angled slightly towards the non ejection or shooter side of stock
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  #32  
Old 06-09-2021, 03:05 PM
Hicksville Kid
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My MTR has cast off. As the gun recoils aft the rear bag channel guides it to the right because itís Ďbentí thus moving the aim point to the left. When you push the gun forward to the stop, it returns to aim point from the left position. I spoke to CZ support and his only suggestion is to buy a different stock. I looked at everything in the CZ website and over a dozen reviews and shooting videos and there was no mention of cast anywhere. None. My 453 Varmint stock is dead straight. I canít comprehend how a bench rest gun would have anything but a straight stock. What would be the purpose of the cast? I want the gun to come straight back, thatís why I bought a Protektor rear bag. Itís great. Iím going to start a new thread and ask MTR owners to look at their guns and see their responses.
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  #33  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
My MTR has cast off. As the gun recoils aft the rear bag channel guides it to the right because itís Ďbentí thus moving the aim point to the left. When you push the gun forward to the stop, it returns to aim point from the left position. I spoke to CZ support and his only suggestion is to buy a different stock. I looked at everything in the CZ website and over a dozen reviews and shooting videos and there was no mention of cast anywhere. None. My 453 Varmint stock is dead straight. I canít comprehend how a bench rest gun would have anything but a straight stock. What would be the purpose of the cast? I want the gun to come straight back, thatís why I bought a Protektor rear bag. Itís great. Iím going to start a new thread and ask MTR owners to look at their guns and see their responses.
Mine has some cast off too and I'm having the same problems with consistency. As hard as I try to have a consistent setup and technique I get a little different recoil each time. I thought it was just me but now starting to realize the stock may be working against me.
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  #34  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:11 PM
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Looks like a Protektor but very expensive:



https://dimars.com.ua/
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  #35  
Old 06-09-2021, 08:29 PM
Hicksville Kid
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Originally Posted by LapLab View Post
Mine has some cast off too and I'm having the same problems with consistency. As hard as I try to have a consistent setup and technique I get a little different recoil each time. I thought it was just me but now starting to realize the stock may be working against me.
What you can do to see the problem at its maximum is set the gun up on the bullseye and not touch any part except the trigger and the back of the trigger guard. Pull the trigger by squeezing it between the trigger finger and thumb trying not to move the gun. After it fires check where it is pointed again not moving it. At 50 yards mine jumped from aimpoint to the left outer ring of the GM target, about an inch. Push it back forward and it should be back on aim point. Without a very tight grip and heavy forward shoulder pressure to limit recoil movement itís going to move. Repeating a grip like that is going to difficult, to say the least, and consistency suffers.

Iím sure that there are a few more MTRs out there with cast off.

Is the cast easily seen? Mine is. My Browning 725 Trap gun has cast off as do most clay guns. Also easily apparent.
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  #36  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
What you can do to see the problem at its maximum is set the gun up on the bullseye and not touch any part except the trigger and the back of the trigger guard. Pull the trigger by squeezing it between the trigger finger and thumb trying not to move the gun. After it fires check where it is pointed again not moving it. At 50 yards mine jumped from aimpoint to the left outer ring of the GM target, about an inch. Push it back forward and it should be back on aim point. Without a very tight grip and heavy forward shoulder pressure to limit recoil movement itís going to move. Repeating a grip like that is going to difficult, to say the least, and consistency suffers.

Iím sure that there are a few more MTRs out there with cast off.

Is the cast easily seen? Mine is. My Browning 725 Trap gun has cast off as do most clay guns. Also easily apparent.
Yes I've done similar things but not experienced enough to have considered the stock as a problem. More often than not when I throw one that far out I'll look through the scope and the rifle/scope will have recoiled to that impact point. I'm just learning the benchrest "thing" so I've always blamed it on me, setup etc. However even when I'm meticulous about setup with no outside influence I notice this issue. I use a Protector rear bag. Next time out I'll pay more attention to what's going on with the rear bag.
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  #37  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:39 PM
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Mine has cast off too. It shoots pretty good though. I am going to do some experimenting next time out.
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  #38  
Old 06-10-2021, 02:54 PM
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+1 on the castoff. Not a lot. You almost need to be told to look for it. I just attempt to be sure to push my stock fully against the stop before each shot. Unfortunately, I sometimes forget to do that and it shows on that target. Still experimenting with hold and shoulder pressure. And continuing to adjust to 9x scope. Seeing some improvement and still working with it.
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  #39  
Old 06-10-2021, 08:51 PM
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Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie at bench shooting.

Would one rear bag be better than another in this situation with the castoff ? or
would it be better off to get a different stock for the rifle ?
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  #40  
Old 06-12-2021, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
My MTR has cast off. As the gun recoils aft the rear bag channel guides it to the right because itís Ďbentí thus moving the aim point to the left. When you push the gun forward to the stop, it returns to aim point from the left position. I spoke to CZ support and his only suggestion is to buy a different stock. I looked at everything in the CZ website and over a dozen reviews and shooting videos and there was no mention of cast anywhere. None. My 453 Varmint stock is dead straight. I canít comprehend how a bench rest gun would have anything but a straight stock. What would be the purpose of the cast? I want the gun to come straight back, thatís why I bought a Protektor rear bag. Itís great. Iím going to start a new thread and ask MTR owners to look at their guns and see their responses.
This is good info here, the MTR stock does have a huge amount of cast, not the best thing for bench rest, I have no idea why CZ would put a stock on the MTR with that much cast, off hand and position shooters usually use stocks with cast, but the MTR has no provision for open sights....I dont get it.
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  #41  
Old 06-12-2021, 07:14 AM
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here is a visual
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  #42  
Old 06-12-2021, 07:51 AM
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Cast off or offset? There is a difference.

Cast means the stock flows to one side or the other (cast-on for lefties, cast-off for righties) from the wrist (or pistol grip) back to the butt. Offset means the stock turns one way or the other at the wrist and then straightens back out. Offset is preferred because regardless of where the shooter places his/her head on the length of the comb, the eye is always in the same place in relation to the sighting system. Also, with cast, the stock can recoil into the shooter's head because it moves back at an angle while an offset stock moves straight back.

I'm a former competitive trapshooter (state class champion in 2000) with wide-ish cheekbones and have needed more offset than even an adjustable comb allows so I've had stocks bent. Yes, wood can be bend using a machine that exerts pressure on the butt while hot oil flows over the wrist but you can only add cast that way, not offset as that would involve bending the stock in two directions at the wrist. I am a contributing editor for Shotgun Sports Magazine and have written several articles on stock fit. The bottom line is that the gun should be made to fit you, not the other way around.

I have often felt sorry for lefties as it unfortunately is a right-handed world especially in the firearms business. My wife and daughter-in-law are lefties and choices in bolt-action rifles with left-hand actions are very limited. Since most production gunstocks are proportioned for the "average shooter," whoever that is, many have some offset or cast-off that hinders a good gun mount for lefties but bending a wood stock is a good option for them. With "tupperware" stocks, I don't believe that can be done.

I have a tool that when placed on a shotgun's rib or a rifle's barrel and extended back over the stock will visually indicate the stock's shape and provide its complete measurements. I had some photos of the tool on stocks of various shapes but they apparently went missing during a RAM stick failure in this PC a year ago.

Stock shape is more important than people believe especially on shotguns where the shooter's eye is the gun's rear sight. If you have to move your head over, up or down to have the gun shoot where you are looking, that repositioning will be lost as soon as your eye moves to the target (where it should be looking) because your body will automatically move your head back to its natural position.

Ed
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  #43  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicksville Kid View Post
Iím sure that there are a few more MTRs out there with cast off.
The MTR is a right hand only version. All of them will have cast off.
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