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  #1  
Old 05-29-2021, 06:01 PM
Lerrab
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Hunting with the Mach 2



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I wasn't sure if this belonged in the .17hm2 forum or in this section. Since the subject deals with the cartridge as it is used for hunting I thought I would post it here.

The volume of mail I get, both regular and e-mail concerning the use of " lasers" in conjunction with the Mach 2 is staggering. This began months ago and it has not let up. I thought I would attempt a clarification in an attempt to at least reduce the mail to a level that would allow the mail carrier to get it all into my box.

It seems like a lot of folks think a Laser somehow weakens an animal so that the mach2 can then finish the job. They hear about how the animal was "Lasered" and then killed by the Mach 2. I have received quite a few inquiries as to whether the "Laser" if used up close on small game and pests would preclude the use of the mach2 altogether, therefore, cutting down on the noise level and possible meat loss.

I want to say the laser has it's uses, especially for those who are not extremely good at judging yardage. But the way the word has been bandied about it was bound to lead to confusion. Some do Laser everything but it is not to weaken an animal in any way. The Laser they are referring to is an aid to range finding.

The laser is an extremely low energy light beam that is reflected back from a target. I think it is probably over used but that is just me.
Anyhow, I do feel that it has it's uses and when taking on dangerous game with a smaller cartridge such has become fashionable with the Mach2, It allows one to stay a safe distance away and still put the bullet in the brain of an Elephant or a Cape Buffalo.

In summary; the .17 mach2 is more than capable of bring down large animals at extreme distances without help from any other device. That is what the CARTRIDGE is capable of. The shooter still has to be an expert at extended range !

Last edited by Lerrab; 05-29-2021 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:04 PM
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2021, 06:48 PM
Silas

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A large percentage of the male elephants I harvest are castrated. At first I thought it was the dominant older males chewing off the younger males' testicles but my current theory is that the castrations are the result of the elephants being lasered with non-compliant devices that exceed the Government's power output limits.
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2021, 08:50 PM
Lerrab
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Silas, I would appreciate any information you can give me on castrated elephants. I, of course know about the bad karma ( which is nearly as bad as Hippo) concerning the mention of numbers about. You can PM me that info or if you would rather not, I more than understand.

I just had two years of study and info gathering about the subject brought into question, (by myself might I add) that I refuse to print any of it. I am starting over. I was supposed to have my "paper" completed by the next Safari Club International meeting and instead of sharing my discoveries I will stand at the podium, embarrassed, and share my disappointment.

I relied heavily on the experiences of others and never checked them out. They spoke wonderfully of Africa and of Elephants in particular. I recorded their experiences and numbers. There was a particular game manager in Botswana who was sending reports of what seemed to be an unusual number of Elephants without testicles, and of course I added his numbers . As I was wrapping up the paper early I had a little extra time so I thought I would just visit the man. Upon inspection of the Elephants in question I discovered that every one of them without testicles, were female! That will skew the results and I must abort the entire study as I don't have much confidence in some of the other reports. I will be more careful of who I gather information from here on in.

Last edited by Lerrab; 05-29-2021 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:33 PM
Silas

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Perhaps it is best if I limit the discussion of my experiences with pachyderm packages. Suffice to say that every time I go into the bush I could write a small chapter about elephant hunting. More to it than meets the eye.

I would like to bring up an important point in the way of a quick Safety Reminder:

Always ensure you have an adequate backstop when harvesting elephants with a Mach II. Some typical examples include; granite rock faces, discarded sheets of 2Ē thick AR500 steel or a stack of International DT466 engine blocks.

It is not uncommon for a Mach II projectile, even after penetrating thick muscle and crushing heavy bone, to exit the animal. This presents an extreme danger to life and property in the next district over where the projectile will eventually come back to earth.

EXERCISE CAUTION & BE SAFE !!!
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Old 05-30-2021, 05:03 AM
stringnut
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Silas, if you are using DT 466 blocks, as a backstop, do you use the old mechanical block? The newer blocks , for the electronic engines, may be thinner.

I did not realize the Mach 2 was so powerful. My 17 HMR will stop in a large city phone book. However it will not stop in the phone book for the one traffic light town I live in
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Old 05-30-2021, 07:43 AM
Lerrab
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stringnut, Those not familiar with the part of ballistics that deals with case design and catchy names often have trouble grasping how smaller can in fact be much more! The .17 mach2 is the leader in this arena while the 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the best known example.

The Creedmoor on appearance looks like a smallish centerfire cartridge , just a tad smaller than a .260 Remington. But as the ballisticians and engineers found out early on there is some " magic" in a name that is not completely understood ( NASA is currently trying to solve this riddle)

They noticed when they gave it a 30 degree shoulder angle an afterburner effect was imparted to it's fired bullet adding two to three hundred yards to it's performance. When they put the letters CM on a case they got a similar boost. When they stamped Creed on the case they got another big boost. When they stamped the entire Creedmoor name on the case head the boost was tremendous vaulting it to the greatest cartridge on earth and this information was put forth by gun writers who I am sure never saw a dime from Hornady.

It is a good 1000 yard deer cartridge or more, just ask anyone! The folks at Weatherby are embarrassed all to heck over their big 6.5x 300 cartridge.

Here is a partial list of 6.5 cartridges that can push the exact same weight and shape of bullet faster than the Creedmoor but lack a flashy name or 30 degree shoulder angle and therefore just can't compete with the Creedmoor. 6.5x55, .260 Rem., 6.5x.284., 6.5-06., 6.5 Rem. Mag., .264 Win. Mag., 6.5 STW., .26 Nosler, 6.5x300 Wea. All of these cartridges can push the exact same bullet faster than a Creedmoor and you would think once the bullet left the barrel that would be all there was to it. That is the part that lay persons do not understand about the Creedmoor and the .17 Mach 2. and is why the .17 mach2 can be the right choice for dangerous game while your HMR gets 'Hung Up" on a phone book!

Last edited by Lerrab; 05-30-2021 at 12:30 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2021, 09:00 AM
Silas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringnut View Post
if you are using DT 466 blocks, as a backstop, do you use the old mechanical block? The newer blocks , for the electronic engines, may be thinner.
Thank you for pointing out my lack of clarification. I sincerely hope no one was out last night with their Mach II using their pile of DT466 blocks (regardless of generation) as a backstop. Let me be a bit more concise in the meaning I meant to convey. When using any of the blocks it is recommended to stack them 3 to 4 deep, with the newer blocks it becomes necessary to also fill them with a mixture of shredded steel belted radial tires and concrete.

Another interesting note about the Mach II. The U.S. Military had intended upon adopting it as their new bunker buster munition but unfortunately it ran afoul of the Brussels Protocol of 2007 which deemed it excessively destructive and overly prone to causing inadvertent collateral damage to civilian interests adjacent to the targeted military assets.
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:40 AM
stringnut
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I have not worked on a DT 466 in many years. Recently celebrated 30 years at the Mack and Volvo dealership. The engines I deal with are much larger. I donít think a Mach 2 would be a good block buster. Probably have to use a magical creedmore on a Mack or Volvo block.

Speaking of the magic 6.5 CM let me explain how my wife chose hers. The LGS had two Weatherby Camillas. One 308 and one 6.5. After careful consideration of the ballistic merits of each she picked the one with the nicest wood.
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Old 05-30-2021, 01:46 PM
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A headache later after reading this thread Yeah makes about as much sense as this whole thread...

I do not know where this thread would be appropriate..One flew over the elephants nest maybe..

Last edited by carbineone; 05-30-2021 at 01:50 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2021, 01:47 PM
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Old 05-30-2021, 02:01 PM
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I do not know where this thread would be appropriate..One flew over the elephants nest maybe..

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  #13  
Old 05-30-2021, 03:26 PM
Lerrab
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carbineone, I don't want to offend you but in an effort to keep the contents of this thread factual, I am going to have to tell the readers that Elephants do NOT make nests! A lot of mammals do but elephants are not amongst them.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:57 AM
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Concerning elephants, let's not forget Dumbo. He demonstrated how his species, the lesser pachyderm, do actually fly and therefore how they make it from the nest to the ground. Because of their size, there are no known trees that can support their weight; therefore, this makes it necessary for them to be cliff dwelling nesters. While elephants can fly, they are not closely related to the other mammal often referred to in the comment "when pigs fly". I'm glad that I could contribute this bit of information to help clarify the aerial antics of our largest land animal.
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